Hey everyone. Thought I'd give a cursory mention about Bobby Lowder retiring from his position at Colonial BancGroup.
You old timers will remember the days when it seemed like 90% of the Auburn faithful hated the guy. I never understood that. I heard all these stories about how dangerous he was and, honestly, I'd assess him as a very bright nerd.
I've only spoken with him a few times, though, so maybe he tricked me.
Sure, he meddled in some stuff. So what? The university (and the athletic department) needed some direction and he provided it. Auburn seems like a pretty healthy institution to me.
One and the substance is ... I agree.
ReplyDeleteLuv - what day is it?
ReplyDeleteJay GT- I've never met the man, but I've always thought most of the negative stuff written or said about him was nonfactual propaganda arising from jealousy. Don't know if that's right or not, but that's my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAgreed THT.
ReplyDeleteI have respect for the guy.
I can't believe I have to wait another 37hr 13min for hockey.
ReplyDeleteI have very mixed emotions about the man. I agreed that he provided direction for the athletic program but I also truly believe that he got in the way of a good AD in Mike Lude and ran him out of town. The Auburn AD position is a joke due to his art of puppetry. He could give Jeff Dunham a run for his money. When Auburn can hire a real AD with power, I would like to see where Auburn could be.
ReplyDeleteNo more AD's .... on a steek
ReplyDeletecatching up on yesterday's posts, I see we were into '80s song lyrics. It would be an unjustice not to include some of my favorites:
ReplyDelete4-Aminobiphenyl, hexachlorobenzene
Dimethyl sulfate, chloromethyl methylether
2, 3, 7, 8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-
para-dioxin, carbon disulfide
Dibromochloropane, chlorinated
benzenes, 2-Nitropropane, pentachlorophenol,
Benzotrichloride, strontium chromate
1, 2-Dibromo-3-chloropropane
(from Run Straight Down by Warren Zevon
You are so right, Jay G.
ReplyDeleteMy assessment is that Bobby Lowder is no different than the alpha boosters at any major program.
The faculty needed a face for its perpetual discontent, and Lowder did things to make it easy for them to make it his Howdy Doodyesque visage. (Note: the phrase "disgruntled faculty" is redundant.)
A lot of the SACS hooha, in my mind, was little more than goes on a lot of places. Auburn, however, has a bad problem of having its family fights in public. SACS had to do something.
Eddie, I am not sure the "powerful AD" exists -- except for Jeremy Foley. He is the exception. Once the Football-Coach-as-AD Era passed, it has created a covey of administrators who owe their professional lives to Bobby Lowder and men like him.
As for Lude, he was a nice man. But from here, he had the look of a man who was way over his head.
Since my beloved son, ElTurbo, was not blessed with the requisite athletic ability, I have dreamed for him a different life path: cowboy astronaut billionaire Auburn booster.
I don't know Lowder, but I believe that he wanted Auburn to succeed.
ReplyDeleteI read on the interweb that Saban wears lifts in his shoes.
ReplyDeleteDespicable.
Jet- Disagree with you about the AD situation. This is one time that I think living in Alabama has clouded your judgement.
ReplyDeleteGood AD's in my Mind that have real power:
Damon Evans- Georgia
Dan Radakovich- Georgia Tech
Dick Baddour- North Carolina
I would take anyone of those along with Foley.
Eddie,
ReplyDeleteI don't know if any of them -- perhaps Baddour -- qualify as "powerful." They all answer to men like Lowder. I guess that's my point.
I actually wanted Radakovich to be our AD. I certainly believe we would handled things differently, even if the outcomes were the same.
re: 6:57 a.m.
ReplyDeleteunjustice? what the heck is that?
and to avoid corrective action from the Chief of Parenthetical Police, aka the Queen of Habotn... )
Though he may have meddled a bit too much in the athletic department, I'm a graduate of the Lowder school of business so I can't be hatin' on him too much.
ReplyDeletePat Dye once called Mr. Lowder "that Jiminy Cricket looking fellow" at a booster club meeting. Guess that gives you his pov.
ReplyDeleteMe, I see the good he's done for not only the athletics program, but the university as a whole. However, there is a time and place for all things including moving on in life.
Morning Hotties - first things first, we're no longer in the triple digits. As of today, we have 99 days until AU kicks off a new era.
ReplyDeleteAs to Lowder, I always felt confident that he definitely wanted what was best for AU but perhaps went about it in the wrong ways at time.
On a personal level, I thought he was a ginormous jerk. I worked for Colonial for around 5 years. Not long at all after I'd started I was waiting on the elevator in the lobby by myself (I've always been early to work) when he walked up and stood near me to board the same elevator to take us to our respective floors. Now maybe it's because I was a fine young man raised in the South, or maybe it's just common courtesy but either way, I choose to speak to people when I see them. Which is exactly what I did in this case. I greeted him just the same as I would have anyone else. His response? Turn to look directly at me, glare at me for a good 10 seconds then turn around and stare at the elevator. The elevator arrives, we board it together and ride in silence. My stop was first and I gave him a customary "have a good day" on my way out. This too was met with silence.
That was my first professional encounter with him but certainly not my last. It just happens to be the one I'll never forget. Jerk.
I know Lowder personally. I have two sisters who work with him and his family. It is my opinion that his bad rap is undeserved. Thats what I get from my sisters too. When I cam back from Texas to A-Day he stopped by our tailgate just to see my family and meet my girlfriend. He is an extremely nice guy and he has given A LOT to Auburn. His involvement with Jetgate tagged him as an evil trustee, and that probably will never be forgotten, but he has done a lot of good for Auburn.
ReplyDeletei honestly don't know anything about the guy. i never knew what to believe. however, this is the FIRST thread/article/forum i have EVER read that said anything about the guy in a positive light. first time ever.
ReplyDeleteLowder had a bad rep in many circles long before Jetgate.
ReplyDeleteI never understood the venom toward Lowder.
ReplyDeleteHe seems like an OK guy to me. From my persepective, Lowder has accomplished a lot for Auburn as a whole. I say this despite disagreeing with his push to weaken some academic elements (ie communication) in an effort to strengthen others (ie business/ag).
Then again, I get very assertive about matters that are important to me. To hate on the guy for being passionate would be duplicitous.
duplicitous is a great word. nice diction, jay g
ReplyDelete*It was reasonable to want Bowden gone in 1998.
ReplyDelete*It was reasonable to want Tuberville gone in 2003.
Where is the illogical thinking?
The Godfather was always good to his family. It was the others that got in his way that he could not tolerate. That's the way it is with most in power....they are charming but ruthless. Just sayin
ReplyDeleteThx, Taylor.
ReplyDeleteI've done work for the family and had no problems though. After being in the military for 30 years, you just learn how to work around different personalities.
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of the problems people have with him today is that many feel that Jay Jacobs is his puppet and there wouldn't be anyone hired as a coach that wouldn't be a Lowder pet.
ReplyDeleteNot really my opinion...other than Jacobs being a puppet.
duplicitous!
ReplyDeleteJay GT- I love it when you talk dirty to me.
I never have really understood the people who dislike Lowder. He has done a lot for Auburn.
ReplyDeleteWas it reasonable to want Bowden gone in 1998?- Yes
ReplyDeleteWas it reasonable to want Bowden gone in 1997?- I don't think so, but Lowder wanted it to happen, and the 1997 Alabama game almost gave him the opportunity until one of the dumbest offensive play calls in history, right behind LSU throwing the ball in 1994. I agree that a change was needed, but he was already planning to have Bowden gone at the beginning of 1997.
This same dog and poodle routine has been played out with the last two coaches and again with this one.
Lowder / Dye is somewhat close to the coaches and then in a few years, things go sour and then the Next Coaching search is privately underway. Look at Tubs, Pat Dye was Tub's best friend when he came to Auburn, just like Chizik is now Pat Dye's close friend.
I know one of the pawns in the Bowden case, so I probably am a little biased on how I feel about it.
Lowder retired? who? Oh you mean Mr. Burns from the Simpsons, I can picture Lowder saying come here Smithers.
ReplyDeleteLowder was not all evil, he loves Auburn, almost to a fault. He is getting older. But hey, we knows he has built alot for Auburn's campus. You have to give the guy some credit.
But I wonder if he has a replacement, like a mini-me of sorts. I know he has a son that is around my age or a bit younger.
Recruiting note: Solomon Patton-WR-Murphy-still small, but getting faster and bigger, told me he has been tearing it up in 7 on 7, what that means.........nothing..ha.
Also nice article on Coach P in the newspaper today. I agree we need pitching sooooo bad. It got to the point at the end of the year where I thought we should just set up the pitching machine and see how we fared.
Jay do think the bats add juice now days to all of these little guys hitting sooo many homers.
I remember the 80's only the big dogs knocked them out on a regular basis, not we have bantam weights and power ranger sized guys knocking out double digit dingers...
ok..whew i feel better..
talk amongst yourselves...
Jay, totally agree on the Terry and Tommy bit. If I recall, there was nothing but moans and groans coming from the Auburn faithful during the disastrous 2003 campaign. Everyone just felt bad and then we beat Alabama and it was like the rest of the season was successful. Granted 2004 was a remarkable year but no one knew that was coming in Q4 of 2003.
ReplyDeleteAlso, has anyone considered the JetGate incident was more to keep the Louisville Atheltic Department in the dark more so than the Auburn folks? I mean if they were going to fire Tommy then they would have done it but it's not kosher, however, to talk to a guy w/o permission who is still under contract elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteBowden was as good as done when Miss State came to Auburn and won 20-0 in 1997...it took a year to get it done, but he was dead man walking at that point.
ReplyDeleteWith 95 & 96 being back to back 8-4 years where we struggled on D and couldn't run the football in 96 & 97, he was done.
Add to it that you had a team that didn't seem to ever get along with one another and had no discipline, it wasn't like many people there saw a bright future for Bowden at Auburn.
Getting rid of Bowden wasn't a bad thing, although just like Tuberville, he was one of the winningest coaches in school history. Getting rid of Tuberville in 2003 was just as dumb as getting rid of him in 2008. I didn't see the decline with Tuberville that I did with Bowden. This team has talent and I had faith Tuberville would get things going again this year. That is water under the bridge, but I do not like instability in the coaching ranks.
ReplyDeleteI do feel Tuberville got sick of the pressure to win at Auburn. I viewed Tuberville just like I did Landry at Dallas. He did so much for Dallas, he deserved more time to turn things around. I do think Lowder and Dye had a lot to do with the pressure put on Tuberville, but I also acknowledge they were trying to do what they felt was best for Auburn. The thing with Tuberville is that I believe he has been the best Auburn head coach in terms of graduating players, which should be the most important thing. Tuberville's record at Auburn was very comparable to Shug Jordan's.
That being said, it doesn't mean Chizik wasn't a good hire. I do think he was a good choice and has already proven that. No, he hasn't won a game yet, but I like the approach he has taken. If we had hired Lane Kiffin, I would want him fired now. I like a coach that conducts business in a professional manner.
I saw Terry Bowden the other day....
ReplyDeleteHe was spitting water out of his mouth half naked in the middle of someones fountain....
A CEO is supposed to know who to hire, who to retain, and who to fire. If a CEO fails so miserably at that, he deserves a boot.
ReplyDeleteI don't think a $9000.00 a DAY job deserves 'second chances' to turn things around. That's bogus. I don't make $9000 a month, and I show more responsibility in hiring a daily wage temporary worker than he did in hiring coordinators.
Losing to Vandy, and getting whupped 36-0 in Iron Bowl are neither acceptable, nor excusable.
Anybody see Jay Jacob's letter to the AU faithful about the new TV package?
ReplyDelete11 of 12 AU games on TV this year.
There will be one SEC game at 2:30... all the rest will be either 11:30 or at night.
Gonna be tough on the out of towners!
RK- Bowden was done before that, it was just timing. My point is that he was the main player behind that whole thing, way before the public started thinking about whether Bowden should be fired or not. I have no problems with that way of thinking, but I believe it should come from an AD qualified to make those decisions. Bowden, by all accounts, was Lowder's doing in having him hired. I will say that I didn't hear a peep from him during this coaching search, and i'm fairly certain that Chizik being the head coach was not a planned thing in advance, especially knowing someone close to Chizik at the time.
ReplyDeleteXaff- I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you, I know I'm not. It's just the way that Auburn goes about change that needs to be changed in my mind, but hell, what do I know.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Eddie. Whether or not Lowder's meddling was with good intentions it looks bad on the school and we have a terrible reputation because of it.
ReplyDelete"I didn't see the decline with Tuberville that I did with Bowden."
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Using 1993 and 2004 as starting points for each, the decline was somewhat similar.
Like some of the other trustees, Lowder went beyond what should be the responsibilities of the trustees, both in academics and athletics. A lot of trustees don't understand their own function.
ReplyDeleteI know it's prestigious to be one, but I can't understand "the gotta be a trustee" mentality. I also think Auburn would have been much better off if Lowder hadn't done everything in his power to stay on the board.
What's more dangerous than a very bright nerd? I mean really.
ReplyDeleteAuburn wasn't put on SACS probation for nothing.
ReplyDeleteI fully believe that Auburn is a far better place overall due to Bobby Lowder.
ReplyDeleteYes there are concerns and issues over the years about how much control that he has, he's done many great things for the university and always given of his time and money. There is something good to be said for that.
those Sat. morning games are hard to get to from 500 miles away. I don't mind the night games, more time to enjoy The Loveliest Village plus I've got all day Sunday to get home.
ReplyDeleteBut the FRIDAY game, that was a real wicked curve ball. I got lucky and fouled it off.
I knew where Lowder stood in Auburn Athletics when he would fly in from Montgomery in his Helicopter and land it on the practice field. It was like the boss coming to see ya, especially those that would rush up to greet him.
ReplyDeleteI really think the SACS probation was a "spitting" contest. After SACS began reviewing a complaint filed against AU, the administration filed a suit against SACS for not following SACS' own procedures (which they had not done). However, the suit further antagonized the SACS powers-that-be and was a PR disaster for Auburn. I think the probation was just retaliation.
ReplyDeleteMonica ... Shhh.
ReplyDeleteEddie ... I KNOW that in 1997 Tuberville had been ID'd as the new coach, and MAY have already agreed to come.
Harrison ... We got put on SACS probation because we insisted on having our fights in public, rather than private.
Steve ... Tuberville = Tom Landry? Really?
Monica,
ReplyDeleteA bright nerd with an agenda and a means to disseminate it.
Very dangerous.
Just saying.
I definitely don't hold much blame for Franklin on Tuberville. There is a reason we were picked to win the west last season, meaning, we weren't a program in decline. Nobody really saw the Franklin failure coming and Tuberville reacted to it quicker than most would have and actually quicker than what I think was good for Auburn. As for the decline beginning in 2004, that is just silly.
ReplyDeleteAnd the poor way Auburn approaches things is very apparent and I do expect Lowder has something to do with it.
ReplyDeleteJet- I know the same thing and I like I said earlier, I knew a big time pawn in all this that got duped by the main man himself.
ReplyDeleteI agree that he has done great things for the university, but if most of us Auburn loving people were in that same position, would we not do the same?
I think I'll take my helicopter into work today and land on the roof. Those *#%$(*$ better run up to greet me, too.
ReplyDeleteif i had 42 bajillion dollars I would definitely donate money to Auburn and what not, but get involved in athletic meddling I would not.
ReplyDeletebut I would have a helicopter
ReplyDeletePassion isn't an excuse to do damage. I wish it were. I'd catch a lot less hell.
ReplyDelete2004 was the high water mark for Tuberville and the success we should have seen build from that season never really materialized. 2006 should have been nothing but an improvement over 2005. In 2005 we lost 2 regular season games and one of those @ LSU in OT. We were lucky to win ballgames in 2006 and 2007, with a sr QB, we regressed considerably. 2008 goes without saying. There was definitely decline happening, you can make excuses but the record speaks for itself.
ReplyDeleteIf I were rich like Lowder....I think I would have a sweet and Jordan Hare with a view of the field.
ReplyDeleteTuberville deserves full blame for the Franklin expirement. Why do you hire somebody to run an offense that you don't believe in? That is totally Tubs fault, nobody elses.
ReplyDelete2006 and 2007 were good seasons, although we did start out slow in 2007. Both seasons would be considered successful in terms of any coach we have had at Auburn's record.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you fire Al Borges in the first place? That guy was the glue holding the ship together, as much as we wanted to call him boring and run off Brandon Cox...I would have killed for BC and CAB last season. All of these things go back to xCTT.
ReplyDeleteEddie, what gives you the impression he hired someone he didn't believe in? I have never read anything to indicate that.
ReplyDelete2004 - 8 - 0
ReplyDelete2005 - 7 - 1
2006 - 6 - 2
2007 - 5 - 3
2008 - 2 - 6
--------------
Well the bar was raised Steve, whether or not you want to admit it, the bar was raised. You might settle for the Chick Fil A Bowl and 8 wins, but not me. I want to be in Atlanta every year or at least have a chance to get there in late November.
ReplyDeleteI was SO hoping we could get Steve going on the Tuberville/Franklin Soap Opera again by weeks end! WOOO HOOOO.
ReplyDeleteLa vittoria è mia!!
XAFF- AGREED.
ReplyDeleteSteve- What kind of offense did Franklin run at Troy? What kind of offense did Franklin run in the Peach Bowl? What kind of offense did Franklin run in all of 2008? IF you don't see that it was not the offense he was used to running, then I got nothing for you. You win.
Like Xaff pointed out and I said, the numbers don't lie.
ReplyDeleteSean, I agree with you on both counts there, although I see why Tuberville did it. He wasn't willing to settle for 2006 and 2007 results and recognized where the offensive trends in college football were headed.
ReplyDeleteThe correct thing would have been to see who Tuberville chose to replace Franklin. My guess is Malzahn may have very well been it.
The biggest knock I have on Tuberville is Knox. I really don't think Knox was delivering the goods in terms of coaching, even though he was a great recruiter. I say this from an outsider's standpoint because i haven't watched Knox coach.
And when Sean means Atlanta every year, we don't mean New Year's Eve.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Digger update:
ReplyDeleteCan't remember if I told y'all she has been moved to Anniston for rehab. Anyway, Digger says, "All seems to be going well, they gave her a day to settle in and will start the re-hab today. I am staying at night and coming home in the am to shower, shave etc. It is about a 40 minute drive one way.
All vital signs are good now. We do not know how long this is going to take but if I hear anthing I will let you know."
Y'all know Digger is worn out and he'll be putting in lots of road miles. Keep him in your thoughts.
Thanks Eddie
ReplyDeletesean- Atlanta every year? impossible for anybody. Compete for that chance almost every year is what I look for
ReplyDeleteHarrison, that's what I said.
ReplyDeleteThe numbers don't lie. They prove Tuberville is one of the winningest coaches in terms of victories as well as winning percentage in Auburn history and this decade has been the most successful decade in Auburn history other than the 80s.
ReplyDeleteSteve- Once again, Tuberville did choose to replace Franklin, but someone else choose to replace him before he could get the replacement, unless you also believe he "retired". Knox, Ensminger and Nall are all huge knocks for an offensive success in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThe numbers don't lie.
ReplyDeleteActually, I do believe Tuberville quit.
ReplyDeleteSteve- I think I must be getting duped. No way you can actually believe all this. No way. Good one for all this show you put up.
ReplyDeleteHere's what happened ...
ReplyDeleteTuberville switched out Peter Pan Crunchy (Al) for Jif Smooth (TF), even though he much prefers Peter Pan. He bought because of all the nagging from all corners that choosy mothers choosy Jif, and he needed to be a choosy mother.
All the while, Tubs didn't put the twisty-tie back on the bread after the 2004 sandwich, and the bread got stale.
So in 2008, we got stuck with a stale peanut butter sandwich.
Nall is one of the better offensive line coaches in the nation and his success at Auburn proved it. Ensminger, I would characterize as okay. He was an OC previously, at Clemson I believe. Tuberville never gave him the reins to do much at Auburn.
ReplyDeleteGood intentions or not, Jetgate is unforgiveable. Then there is the whole SACs thing. I was in school at the time and there's nothing like knowing your school could lose its accreditation within a year. Just awesome, let me tell ya.
ReplyDeleteSteve- "Number's don't Lie" and neither do multi-million dollar retirement gifts.
ReplyDeleteEddie, just check the record books. The numbers don't lie. The criticism of Tuberville is from spoiled fans that are very similar to Bama fans post Bear.
ReplyDeleteIf I was rich like Lowder I would buy the elephant man bones.
ReplyDeleteSo Steve, i'm a spoiled bama fan?
ReplyDeleteThanks.
Steve- If Tubs is so good, why do you, Steve, personally think it will take 4 YEARS TO REBUILD AUBURN FOOTBALL into a championship quality team? Your logic is flawed somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI suppose it's not surprising that Lowder has his fair share of apologists. Auburn certainly received good money from him over the years (for naming rights of various structures). Just recognize that the "best intentions" line can be used to rationalize the conduct of just about every egomaniacal villain known to history, and it is equally unconvincing here.
ReplyDeleteLowder was the self-appointed puppetmaster who used his money to buy influence, bend and break the rules, crush opposition, all to preserve his own power and influence and to reign over Auburn like his own little fiefdom. Were his actions really about Auburn or himself? It seems those really concerned with the "best interests" of Auburn wouldn't, for example, use political influence to change the rules governing Bd. of Trustee terms simply to prolong their own reign. Megalomaniacal millionaire bullies drunk with their own power and influence do, however.
I'll believe you if you tell me he didn't kick puppies or steal blankets from orphans, but color me unconvinced with the "best of intentions" for Auburn line when it comes to Lowder. The path to hell is lined with them, and that is precisely what Auburn experienced from a public relations perspective as a result of his incessant meddling.
Sorry for the rant. Just my 2 cents.
... and a fur coat.
ReplyDeleteBut not a real fur coat, that's cruel.
The only problem with JetGate, I say, wasn't they didn't finish what they started.
ReplyDeleteThe only way we would have LOST accreditation was for Lowder to defecate at midfield on national TV, extending the middle finger of fellowship to SACS.
It was embarrassing, and it was our own fault. But it wasn't going any further.
... and a K car
ReplyDeleteThat is the best description of it that I can give. Both Perkins and Curry were good coaches that the fans expectations drove off. Stallings was also good, but again I think the fans had a lot to do with him leaving. What happened after Stallings was the result and in my opinion, Bama still isn't recovered, although things do look promising for them.
ReplyDeleteAubie ...
ReplyDeleteMay I recommend a Chevy Citation instead?
Simple Eddie. The damage that was done by getting rid of Tuberville. We got rid of a stable staff and lost a significant number of players and recruits.
ReplyDeleteA K car is a nice Reliant automobile
ReplyDeleteSteve- Tubs was only stealing talent from JSU with those recruits. Give me a break.
ReplyDeleteStable Staff= mediocrity at work, Steve.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I must admit that the one thing that would have kept us from contending for the west this season hasn't changed, the QB, but who knew bother Caudle and Burns would turn into busts.
ReplyDeleteAlso Steve, where are all those great recruits from his 2005, 2006 & 2007 class that should have this team locked and loaded this year?
ReplyDeleteAnd again, please explain yourself on why it will take 4 years to rebuild Auburn's talent?
If I was rich like Lowder I would build a tree fort in my yard.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you can count Caudle as a bust, you have to be given a chance to fail, what chance has he had. Kodi Burns was at least allowed to stink it up for 7 or 8 games...
ReplyDeleteJermaine Johnson chose Miami I thought, not JSU? Look at the players that ended up at Ole Miss, not JSU? Which players did you see turn Auburn down for JSU? Am I missing something?
ReplyDeleteIf Auburn had Tom Brady as QB this year, they still wouldn't be favored in the West as long as they had Greg Knox.
ReplyDeleteYou kind of have a point with Caudle Sean. Caudle has never been given a legit shot in a game. I can only go by what I have read about what he has done in practice, which could be unfair.
ReplyDeleteWe want him on that wall! We need him on that wall!
ReplyDeleteAubie - how about a nice Ford Taurus, which are still in Production by the way. John Longshore raves about his, he even likens it to a Mercedes. But what do I know? My garage is populated with a Tahoe, an Infiniti, some yard equipment, and some junk.
ReplyDeleteTuberville's "success" includes 1 SEC championship and a handful of what I like to call "almost" seasons. Winning percentage and championships he comes in third to Dye and Shug. He beats Barfield but winning percentage he is still underneath Tot, although he did win 1 more SEC title and had more bowl wins.
ReplyDeleteEddie, I think Knox is a given. Good recruiter, but I still don't get why he was the receivers coach. Even some of the great receivers we had earlier this decade seemed to have succeeded in spit of him. I say this because they typically only performed well their last season or two.
ReplyDeleteYOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
ReplyDeleteTuberville had approximately the same winning percentage as Shug. Dye was better. Bowden had the best percentage, but his was heavily weighted by his first two seasons. I don't think anyone would think that the program was in as good of shape when Bowden left as it was when Jordan, Dye, Tuberville, or even Barfield left.
ReplyDeleteAnybody getting ready for the big news today. I have no clue what it is, but have been assured it will be pleasing for Auburn fans. I'm looking forward to hearing.
ReplyDeleteNorm- I believe Conan O'brien still drives his ford taurus
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that Dye didn't have to deal with the SECCG or a 12 team league.
ReplyDeleteThere was a point in the mid 80s where it looked like Dye had seen his better days. THe loss to Texas A&M in the cotton bowl was embarrassing. Dye followed it with 3 SEC titles. We chose to not give Tuberville the same opportunity and we pay for it.
Eddie, I have heard the big news mentioned on here, but who announced there would be big news? I am disable in that I am in South Carolina and don't see Alabama news.
ReplyDeleteTuberville did get his second chance after that 2003 debacle. He won an SEC championship and had one of the greatest seasons in team history. He was unable to use that momentum to build a string of success. He topped that off with bad decisions which then led to one of the worst seasons in 10 years.
ReplyDeleteSteve- for the last time, please tell me why Auburn Football is currently 4 years away from being good again. You have made that statement countless times, but on the other hand you say how great Tubs is and how he should still be the coach. You remind me of "Two-Face" from Batman.
ReplyDeleteEddie,
ReplyDeletecould the big news be the T.V. info that JJ released?
... if I had a million dollars I'd put a tiny little fridge in my tree fort.
2003 wasn't a debacle. That is another myth. Look at the teams we lost to. In retrospect, it was disappointing, but far from a debacle. It was a team that was overhyped and even Tuberville said so prior to the season. He even in some ways predicted 2004.
ReplyDeleteI hate to get involved in Tuberville talk, but the decline in the program was obvious. He and Fulmer were going down similar paths. They had very good OVERALL records, but the RECENT records were indications of where their respective programs were headed. One question- did Lowder tell Coach Dye it was time to leave, or was that a mutual decision by all involved? I have heard different stories on that subject over the years.
ReplyDeleteAubie- No, this is regarding recruiting I believe. It is something the Auburn Staff is holding back till tonight. Like I said, curious minds want to know.
ReplyDeleteMy 'Today' ends in about 4 hours, and then it's going to be 'tomorrow' here.
ReplyDeleteAfter all the anticipation, I deserve my news. Hit me with it.
Steve just compared me to .. bammer?. Dude !!!
Depressed- I'm pretty sure it was more the NCAA suggesting Dye better leave, unless you want us to head down another potential SMU path.
ReplyDeleteIf you're trying to rate the coaches, it's futile. Different eras. Different games.
ReplyDeleteI know this:
Shug took an irrelevant program and won a national championship in 6 years. He also had a series of mediocre years that he would haven't survived in modern times. He had another period of success followed by a train wreck at the end.
Pat Dye took a program in the ditch and made it a powerhouse. He stayed two years too long when his health failed him and a tape recorder finished him off.
Bowden walked into a perfect situation, made the most of it, then tried to remake it into his image. And crashed it.
Tuberville picked up the pieces, did a whole lot of good, but didn't understand that embarrassing losses were potentiall fatal. He never understood about 2003 -- didn't learn a thing from it. Ultimately, it would get him. And it did. So he's a rich man. He was good for Auburn.
And so I finish with this, doing what I say can't accurately be done. I'm saying Auburn's greatest days where when everyone was pulling in the same direction ... with Pat Dye and the man we have discussed ad nauseum today.
Here it is again Eddie.
ReplyDeleteSimple Eddie. The damage that was done by getting rid of Tuberville. We got rid of a stable staff and lost a significant number of players and recruits.
Steve, we're going to have to agree to disagree on 2003. That team was just as loaded, if not more so than the 2004 squad.
ReplyDelete"As for the decline beginning in 2004, that is just silly."
ReplyDeleteNot really, right after 2004 we started taking a step backward. We never capitalized on all the good will and good publicity of going 13-0 and seemed to get stagnant then started slipping.
In my comparison between Bowden and Tub's decline I said start in 1993 and 1994 when they were at their peak and things started slowly at first then took a nose dive.
Eddie, if the announcement is regarding recruiting, I can't imagine what it would be. They can't comment on recruits, so I am as puzzled as you as to what it might be.
ReplyDeleteRK, you expected improvement over the 2004 record? With the graduations in 2004, you had to see a fall off coming. That is only reasonable.
ReplyDeleteWell this is what my new BFF Trooper said to me over dinner last night. Without saying that Knox was a crappy coach, he indicated that what little success our WR's did have last year was entirely up to them. They received no coaching at all. That's an indictment on Knox and by association Tuberville for allowing that to go on.
ReplyDeleteHe also said we had several players on offense who wouldn't be on scholarship at his former POE.
Now, I have never been accused of being a smart man, but it seems that Xaff's post with our SEC record clearly indicates a downward trend. The program was headed nowhere with Tubbs and his no fire in the belly self.
I dunno ... perhaps we're going to drop a recruiting coup in advance of some unpleasantness in Infidelity.
ReplyDeleteA couple of recruits and a NCAA pop? Sounds like an old Waldo Pepper's 3-for-1.
Not that I would know what that was.
The fact that Troop said none of these guys were good enough to start, let alone be on scholarship at OKLAHOMA STATE is a huge statement as to the caliber of player and coaching the offensive squad has received in the past 5 years.
ReplyDeleteThere is a big difference in Bowden's decline and Tuberville's. Auburn was predicted to win the west last season and many, probably including some of you, thought it possible.
ReplyDeleteIn Bowden's final season we were predicted to win....um? What?
The numbers don't lie, that's true.
ReplyDeleteAs someone posted earlier...
2004 - 8 - 0
2005 - 7 - 1
2006 - 6 - 2
2007 - 5 - 3
2008 - 2 - 6
A lot of truth in those numbers.
Can't be bothered with sorrow
ReplyDeleteCan't be bothered with hate, no, no
I'm using up the time
But feeling fine every day
Bowden took a team to the SEC Championship game the year before. So you're right...the road to ruin was a bit longer with Tuberville.
ReplyDeleteSean, can you provide a link. I had read where Troop was surpised that we had so much unused talent on offense, but that has been a while back.
ReplyDeletePredictions lie, numbers don't.
ReplyDeleteRemember?
I was using J-Z as my source, Steve. He posted on here about 5 minutes ago as well as last night.
ReplyDeleteThe numbers RK posted prove my point. One bad season.
ReplyDeleteSteve,
ReplyDeleteHe said that at dinner last night. I heard it with my own ears.
Your Pal,
JZ
Thanks Steve for your explanation. I never knew we lost the #1 Recruiting class last year that would make us instantly better at all these positions that we have no depth at and our coaches even better.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Recruiting, if the Staff is involved, it can be much other than people they are bringing to campus or wanting certain players to go public with private commitments. Not sure, but I do believe this staff has a plan.
Jet- You are absolutely correct, everyone MUST be pulling together for it to work on a sustainable level.
No they don't Steve, each year the team REGRESSED in terms of SEC wins. There is no up and down, only down.
ReplyDeleteIf 5-3 isn't a bad season, you need to raise your expectations.
ReplyDeleteNo Steve, they prove the point that each year we were taking a step back until we reached the edge and fell off it.
ReplyDeleteAnd the funniest and most ludicrous assertion is settling for 8 wins a season. That assertion is laughable. Look at Tuberville's record. How many seasons did we only win 8 games or less. When people post things like that, it is laughable.
ReplyDeleteSteve. I do not intend to start on that thing again. Just some facts and a few questions:
ReplyDelete-> Auburn lost..I think.. 12-13 players in 07-08. Majority of them were transfers. Rose, Trahan, Harris, Slaughter etc all of them were gone under Tub's watch.
Question 1: Who did we lose because of change in staff?
Question 2: Are you of the opinion that Nall and Ensminger are / were good coaches? and Knox was a bad coach? If that is the case, what are the measures of success in your opinion?
Sean, you make a good point on the talent level on that 2003 team. Along with the NFL 1st rd picks from the 04 team, AU had Karlos Dansby, Spencer Johnson, Marcus Mcneil, Jay Ratliff, Dontarrious Thomas and Reggie Torbor, just to name a few. That has to be one of the most talented teams in AU history.
ReplyDeleteHere's my definition of a reasonable expectation.
ReplyDeleteEvery year, we should go into the Georgia game still in the mix for the SEC West Championship.
Without exception.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteAre you being a curmudgeon?
Also, is that a dog in your lap or are you wearing one of those bitchin' wolf t-shirts from yesterday's link?
The 5-3 wasn't a bad season. Look at the losses. The team started out slow and lost to one team they shouldn't have, namely MSU. 6-2 looks a lot different than 5-3. The USF lost was understandable because they were a very good team at that point in the season, although they ran out of gas later on in the season.
ReplyDeleteNo...what's laughable is that you fail to recognize a downward trend when you see one.
ReplyDeleteEnsminger was an okay coach. We lost slaughter after Tuberville left. We lost Jermaine Johnson after Tuberville left. We lost Marks after Tuberville left. There is a ton of talent we lost because Tuberville left, not including the lost recruits which severly damaged the recruiting class. Chizik and company did a good job to some extent in getting a few high profile players, but we lost more than we gained and ended up with a recruiting class that didn't fit our needs.
ReplyDeleteOn a lighter note:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAbBwfDr6_s
My definition of a good season really depends upon the opponents. 2003 was a bad season because we lost a lot of close games, but in general, not to bad teams.
ReplyDeleteSteve- 40% of the time and 60% of the time if you don't count his bowl game wins in 2007 and 2002.
ReplyDeleteLet's take a look at Tuberville, from start to finish. (SEC Record)
ReplyDelete1999: 2-6
2000: 6-3
2001: 5-3
2002: 5-3
2003: 5-3
2004: 9-0
2005: 7-1
2006: 6-2
2007: 5-3
2008: 2-6
Steve, I give you the bell curve. This in obvious and easy to detect trend and it fits very will in a statistical bell curve. If you notice there is a dramatic upswing in 2004 followed by a drop off and reverting back to the 5-3 record Tommy enjoyed for most of his Auburn coaching career. It is obvious going into 2003 the expecation was to get better as we had very similar records the years prior, there was no improvement. The motivator for this jump has to be the hiring of Al Borges. He was a shot in the arm but as you can see the gains were unsustainable.
Look at Tuberville's record. How many seasons did we only win 8 games or less.
ReplyDelete1999
2001
2003
2008
How many seasons did we lose 4 or more.
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2007
2008
I guess I am saying 2003 was bad, yet understandable. The breaks tended to not go our way in 2003, but did go our way in 2004. In 2003 we did lose to a lot of good teams.
ReplyDeleteSometimes you have to take a hit on one recruiting class to bring in a new coaching staff to hopefully bring new life into a program. The long-term results are much more important then one recruiting class.
ReplyDeleteTry more than 4. 9 wins is a good season by any standard you compare to, even Bryant, Bobby Bowden, or Paterno.
ReplyDelete"2003 was a bad season because we lost a lot of close games, but in general, not to bad teams."
ReplyDeleteSteve? A lot of close games?
31-7 to LSU
23-0 to USC
26-7 to UGA
17-3 to Ga Tech
The only close game we lost that year was to Ole Miss in the Obomanu drop game.
We shall see. The hit isn't for one recruiting class. It will continue for several years until the staff stabilizes again.
ReplyDelete9 wins was a good season on an 11 game plus a bowl game schedule.
ReplyDelete9-3 was a good season. Not great, but good.
LSU and USC had pretty good seasons that year, wouldn't you say?
ReplyDeleteRK,
ReplyDeleteI was waiting for that.
What about the previous few recruiting classes we took a hit on before we changed coaches?
ReplyDeleteSteve,
ReplyDeleteYes, LSU and USC had pretty good years that year, and they made us a whipping boy that year...not the close games like you said.
I don't care if they won the co-national title, they shouldn't be beating us by a combined 54-7 any year.
Yeah but Georgia Tech was a 6 loss team and UGA lost 3 that year. Had we had any inkling of an offense we would have been competitive in those games instead of being blown out.
ReplyDeleteOh well, I might as well get some work done today. We will agree to disagree, but all you have to do is look at the winning percentages and you will see that I am correct. Also, take a look at the graduation numbers and academic all americans. It is hard to argue that Tuberville did a bad job.
ReplyDeleteAnd for comparing what happened to him to Fulmer is also laughable. Fulmer had an undisciplined program that was out of control. Auburn had a respected program that looked foolish in getting rid of Tuberville. All you had to do was watch ESPN and see the analysts laughing at us.
We had an offense in all of those games except GT. That game was possibly the ugliest game I think I have ever seen us play.
ReplyDeleteSteve, I would say that the new staff has already created more enthusiasm in Auburn than I saw in the previous two seasons under the old staff. I would allow we still have to see commitments to judge their recruiting ability, but Auburn had become pretty much a non-factor to most big-name recruits. I respect your strong opinion on the coaching change, but I couldn't disagree more on that issue.
ReplyDeleteOr rather not play. Nallsminger was a mistake, but mistakes happen. You make the changes and move on.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I think firing Franklin when he did was also a mistake, although Franklin should have been very fired at the end of the season. My guess is we would have likely won a couple of more games with Franklin.
whoever put the beel curve comment up is dead on. that to me is the way Auburn football will usually follow, no matter who is the coach
ReplyDelete"We had an offense in all of those games except GT."
ReplyDeleteMy head just exploded.
bell curve..not beel
ReplyDeletetechnically there was an offense on the field..it just sucked more than I've ever seen suck before. Until last year
ReplyDeleteI think what our buddy Steve meant to say was that what we had in 2003was "offensive."
ReplyDeleteI know I was offended.
depressed, I do agree that this staff has done a good job of generating excitement and my opinion of how foolish getting rid of Tuberville was has nothing to do with my opinion of the current staff. So far I like what they have done. As for recruiting, I was very happy with recruiting other than the 2007 recruiting class, which was small.
ReplyDeleteRK- I must have missed the great offense we had in the USC game. It only took us 10 quarters to score a touch down.
ReplyDeleteThis side be "Touchdown" this side be "Auburn".
2003's offense wasn't that bad. It was just very bad when you consider the amount of talent that was on that offense. I have another way to describe it. Look at some of Barfields teams. He had some great runningbacks and the talent level was bad, but we typically did good to have a winning SEC record.
ReplyDeleteEddie, where did you hear we had a great offense in the USC game?
ReplyDeleteOur 2003 offense was "suckulent," which means "atrocious, God-forsaken, putrid."
ReplyDeleteIt is a homonym of "succulent," which means "tasty, or appealing to the senses."
I guess opposing defenses found out 2003 offense "succulent" as well as "suckulent."
Gang, we don't need to hope for staff stability as some have mentioned here. In the current version of the SEC where you have either superstar coaches or up-and-coming assistants (or both), a staff staying intact isn't going to happen. What you can hope for is that all staff members current and future will fall into the scheme and plans of the HC.
ReplyDeleteConsistency, as much as anything, builds momentum for programs.
Sorry Steve.
ReplyDeleteSlaughter was out of the team before Iron Bowl. Tubs announced him leaving back in November. Slaughter started looking out after the ole miss game.
Jermaine Johnson has qualified? I don't think you lose talent that you never had.
Marks went in NFL draft. I don't think that has anything to do with staff, unless you want to blame tubs for all the early draftees.
Slaughter missed the Iron Bowl, but he wasn't off the team until much later.
ReplyDeleteSensi ...
ReplyDeleteCLAP. CLAP. CLAP.
For what it's worth the 2008 offense was worse than the 2003 offense.
ReplyDeleteSo in that comparison, we can praise the 2003 offense.
Slaughter? I don't even know her.
ReplyDeleteSensi, my guess is that Borges and Rhoads would have represented stability.
ReplyDeleteThere were two 2008 offenses. The initial one wasn't great. The post Franklin one was worse. This isn't to say it was all Nallsminger's fault. Todd was done and with that we were pretty much done offensively.
ReplyDeleteThe other big laugher was the MSU game. Todd was the QB but the biggest problem in the game was the penalties. We looked grossly unprepared to execute and it was that game that convinced me Franklin should be gone.
The 2008 offense was "Tuburcular," which has as its second definition "the persistent hacking and wheezing of an offense, often symptomatic of the head coach's passive-aggressive mismanagement of the program."
ReplyDeleteActually, the MSU game was probably the best indicator of the problems last season, even though we won. I don't know about you, but I wasn't feeling like we won anything.
ReplyDeleteAs for mismanagement, I don't consider that to be the case.
The offense was pretty bad all year long...the close game vs LSU gave us false hope, but that was just the D being really good in the 1st half and LSU adjusting.
ReplyDeleteI had my doubts about the offense after the 1st game vs LaMonroe where we only had 3 offensive TD's and struggled moving the ball the whole game.
ReplyDeleteRK, the LSU game was definitely false hope because that was the worst LSU team in many seasons, primarily due to the lack of experience at QB.
ReplyDeleteAs for now, I am very encouraged by what Chizik has done. I will judge recruiting by how well he fills our needs, namely linemen and linebackers. In terms of the season, I will judge based upon how prepared we are and how well we execute. Counting wins and losses is really not a good measure of how good a football team is. How they execute is.
ReplyDeletej-z, did either of my parents chest-bump CTT at the meeting last night? I haven't heard a report from them.
ReplyDeleteAn example of the win loss thing not always being a good measure is because of the level of the competition. The last LSU national championship is a good example. We have had a lot of teams recently that were better than that LSU National Championship team.
ReplyDeleteOzzie Smith it
ReplyDelete