On the subject of Lebo's success ...
Hey everyone. So I'm still working on that story about Jeff Lebo, whose future employment at Auburn is in question. The Tigers haven't been all that good under his tutelage.I think it's important to consider his work in the context of his predecessors. Auburn isn't North Carolina, Gonzaga or even Winthrop in terms of basketball aura. Or expectations.
So how does he stack up against former Auburn guys? I'm glad you asked.
Note that only two guys -- one of them a football coach -- cracked .500 in league games. That's amazing to me.
AUBURN COACHES OF THE SEC ERA
Sorted by their SEC winning percentage
- Joel Eaves, 14 seasons: 213-100 (68%), 124-75 (57%)
- Ralph Jordan, 10 seasons: 95-77 (55%), 61-56 (52%)
- Bill Lynn, 10 seasons: 130-124 (51%), 84-88 (49%)
- Bob Davis, 5 seasons: 70-61 (53%), 42-48 (47%)
- Cliff Ellis, 10 seasons: 186-125 (59%), 73-87 (45%)
- Sonny Smith, 11 seasons: 173-154 (53%), 84-114 (42%)
- Danny Doyle, 2 seasons: 21-25 (46%), 12-18 (40%)
- Jeff Lebo, 6th season: 96-92 (51%), 35-61 (36%)
- Tommy Joe Eagles, 5 seasons, 64-78 (45%), 29-55 (34%)
- Bob Evans, 2 seasons: 4-28 (13%), 3-18 (14%)
- V.J. Edney, 1 season: 3-18 (14%), 1-15 (6%)
Photo credit: Todd Van Emst/Auburn University
Questions? Comments? Post directly to the blog below or email me at jgtate@gannett.com.
posted by Jay G. Tate at
9:01 AM
126 Comments:
lebo substance
Bears, Beets, Battlestar Galactica.
Is Bob Evans the breakfast guy?
HARGROVE!
wait, is there really 'substance' for Lebo DL?
Perhaps he's the brother of Rob Evans, the former Ole Miss coach.
I googled Bob Davis yesterday. An Auburn fan, on a message board, said he was the last Auburn hire that came from a big program. He's from Georgetown.
What the message-board poster forgot: Davis coached at Georgetown (Ky.) College; not the Hoyas.
Submitted without comment
So, with 5 years or more, Lebo is only in front of Tommy Joe Eagles in Winning Percentage. I still want a change, but I still believe we will get one more year of convincing regardless.
You are correct, Eddie.
Jeff is thankful for Tommy Joe Eagles.
Jay G- That's a new form of assault. Wonder what the penalty will be for that.
So the story Jay submitted could be one of the most bizarre things I've ever read.
Subject of Lebo's success. That's a small subject. Short conversation.
Talked with somebody this weekend that said, "but he keeps us out of trouble with the NCAA." So freakin' what. Do we get to start the game up 10 points because of that? That's just loser talk man. Moral victory BS. I'm tired of losers. Hire a winner already.
I vow never to attend another game as long as he's there.
only in the bluegrass JG. ha!
I consider the only valid comparisons to be coaches that competed in the integrated era of college basketball. I'll toss out Bill Lynn as he coached one, maybe two, African-American players.
Here's how I rank them since Lynn. Paul Lambert, who died without coaching a game, was the coach for a brief period between Bob Davis and Sonny Smith.
1. Sonny -- went to 5 straight NCAAs, burned out and left to become VCU's winningest coach
2. Cliff -- Got us a No. 1 seed and to two Sweet 16s. Got us in trouble. Got shown the door. Won a bunch of games this year and will go to the NIT.
3. Dr. Bob -- Went undefeated at home in 1973-74 and would have had AU's first NCAA bid in a 64-team field. Great ... ahem ... recruiter.
4. Lebo -- Season 3 was actually pretty good considering what his hand was. Season 5 was manageable. A team with 5 seniors is supposed to do better than this.
5. Eagles -- Had some talented players, and some good wins, but not much else to show for his 5 years.
After reading Jay G's submission ...
MILKA-what!?!
Seanzie - How's this for bizarre?
Norm- That is funny that someone would actually go and have black market cosmetic surgery.
especially to get a bigger booty. that's nuts!
Breast Milk = Biohazard?????
Happy Monday Hotties! Back to work so soon. I took my daughter and a couple of her friends to Southaven MS yesterday to watch the Gulf South Conference basketball championship game between UAHuntsville-Arkansas Tech. Ark Tech hit 12 goals in the first half, of which 10 were 3-pointers! Crazy. UAH went on a 14-0 run at the end of the game to take the a 2-pt lead with 28 seconds (their first lead of the game). ATU hit a 3 and took a 1 point lead. UAH had the ball with 11 seconds. For some reason the coach didn't call a timeout to set up a play. No one wanted to take the last shot. They lost by 1, but it was a very exciting game. They are a very young team. Only 1 senior who contributed. They did make the dance for Division II.
Lebo is the Dude. Save the Dude.
Arkansas Tech Wonder Boys ... love that nickname ... too bad the women's team aren't the Wonder Women.
I know Lebo.
I know the Dude.
Lebo is no Dude.
I take JG's point to be that Lebo is doing OK considering that he is at AU and we don't really have the culture to consistently attract the talent to do remarkably better. If I have paraphrased correctly, I think there is a lot of validity to JG's statement. Of course that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to do better and a new coach is a step in that direction. If Jay is right, we will unfortunately always be hiring a new coach every 5 years in an effort to find the right coach to overcome our deficiency.
Notice that almost every school with a great BBall culture is absent a great football culture. Many very good players want to go to these BBall schools and be the BMOC. That ain't gonna happen for a BBall player at AU because there isn't the fan interest.
I find fault with any AU BBall fan that complains and doesn't go to the games regularly ..regardless of how the team is doing. Until we show up, cheer and make those players BMOC's, we will always take a back seat to other schools. If BBall fans want a good program, they need to support it enough to convince the top recruits to come to AU.
I say it shows a HUGE commitment by the PTB to invest in a new arena ...at a school where the fans won't even show up unless we are competitive. Blaming the PTB-AD in this case is wrong. Blame the fact that there aren't enough AU fans that are true BBall fans.
1500 fans at an AU BBall game(which happens) is equivalent to only 12,000 at a football game(will never happen).
Dang ..Wonder Woman could put out enough biohazard to require a HazMat crew cleanup.
Personally, after looking at Jay's article, I do think the Dude deserves 2 more years. Set reasonable goals and give him a shot at it. A reasonable short term goal might be to have a winning record or win half the SEC games. Give him two years to make it happen in the new arena. If not, bye bye Dude.
Must be offseason......bball discussion is actually amazing. I went last year when they were winning--more times for women. This year didn't make it---guess I need more to get excited about. But I do think Lebo should get one year in the arena just for hanging around and not ditching us.
The inclusion of a certain legendary name amongst the list of AU Men's Basketball HCs prompts me to mention my favorite obscure SEC trivia question (obscure mostly because I'm probably the only one who figured it out):
Q: During the 1983-84 season, Joe B. Hall won his 271st game as HC of the Kentucky Wildcat men's basketball team, giving him the SEC record for most varsity victories in a major sport (football or basketball) as HC at a Conference school by an alum of that same school. Who held the previous record?
A: Ralph "Shug" Jordan, with 270 varsity victories at API/Auburn (95 basketball, 175 football).
A shortened version for winning a bet with a Bammer: who won more varsity games as an HC at their respective alma mater, Paul Bryant or Shug Jordan?
Of course you may have to first explain to the Bammer what 'alma mater' means.
The problem with keeping him for two more years (and thus fulfilling his contract), is that their are no seniors on next year's team. Meaning that there will be no opportunity to add players for the following year (year 8)--the rosters for year 7 and 8 will be identical.
Naturally this would change if someone transfers out or is kicked out. But, in the age of APR, that isn't something you hope for.
Back in town after a relaxing vacation. Did I miss anything?
I think Lebo gets at least 1 more year. He has a good class coming in and I think they will win. He will at least have a point guard. he hasn't had one since he ran the dude off early on.
I got caught up on my fball recruiting news on my way back into town. Looks like Au had a very GOOD weekend for recruits coming to town.
In state recruiting is going to be very interesting this year. Look for AU to have a good year in state and battle UA for several in GA.
Not going to games isn't the answer.
How many of those coaches started out on probation and had to clean house with a few players?
Also there was a comment that with 5 seniors he should have done better. That's not necessarily true. All of the writers and experts predicted us to finish last in the west. That means they knew our seniors where not very good. I know the argument will be that it is his job to recruit and that would be correct, but he is handcuffed unlike any other coach in the country.
I gathered this data because of a suggestion from a college head coach. He's a friend.
He said Lebo should be judged relative to what other guys at Auburn have accomplished.
Lebo, to me, is in the 50 percentile. He's average for Auburn.
I can't get into 2011 recruiting until summer. We're too far away and many of these kids have dozens of schools on their radar.
I am kind of in between with Lebo. I say give him 2 years or let him go now. I don't favor giving him one year. With 4 starters graduating, it is unlikely we see a huge improvement in one year. Either can him now or give him two.
JayG-They do have a long time before they make a decision. I just think that AU is SO FAR ahead any recruiting they have done in the past. As a fan, I never recall AU being 'in' on so many highly rated recruits. They won't get'em all, but it just tells me this group of coaches is still out beating the drum for AU and, so far, it looks like they are not backing away from anybody they feel will be able to fill a need for them.
I was at 'let's give him another couple of years' a couple of years ago. I don't see that marked improvement is feasible at this point.
ehyou- how was your weekend on the plains?
ehyou, I am with you. I am closer to the cut bait side of the argument. I just feel giving him one year in the new arena will be pointless. I can't really see drastic improvement next season. So keeping him one season seems foolish. Two seasons would likely give him enough time to put something together. Whether he can or not, I don't know. I am far from a basketball person.
So we're just supposed to accept mediocrity in basketball because we've typically been mediocre? I think that's what is known as a self fulfilling prophecy. Lebo may have some great kids coming in, but he's consistently proven that he can't keep them on the team.
I think it's time for him to go and to bring in someone, anyone who can generate a little excitement in the fanbase. It's ridiculous to me that other that at games, you don't see Lebo anywhere. He has done nothing to make people want to support the team. Coaching the games and running practice is only part of the HC's job.
Welcome to the new guy J-Z.
WOW
She's prepping to go to see her new boyfriend and her ex is holding the wheel...the lives some folks lead.
Auburn was awesome as usual. You will rarely find a more interesting mix of folks than the bowling alley.
I don't disagree that we could use someone that is more exciting. I'm also not saying that I like where the program is now. I'm just not willing to give Lebo all of the blame on this.
I concur with Hoopie about support. It matters. It's worth a bucket or two, or a stop or two.
CH=B ... you are right where I used to be. I defended Lebo.
Just can't do it anymore. It's not like Hargrove, Waller and Reed hadn't played significant minutes in the past. Or Frankie Sullivan, for that matter. Lett is the only one who had little playing time.
Looking at the Lebo's numbers, they are mediocre. I think he could be a good coach -- somewhere else. But if we're going to pay $93 million for an arena, it seems short-sighted to not have the best fit possible running the product.
I think he's gone (save some sort of run in the tournament), and needs to be.
I say screw it. It's not like he can do much worse the next two years, and it saves us 1.5 million in unnecessary expense. Nobody cares anyway.
Uh oh.
Roethlisberger hires Ray Lewis' old attorney.
Also it is unfair to judge his work compared to previous coaches. The emergence of AAU and Lebo's inability to recruit through them is very significant.
The smoke swirls a little too much around Ben for there not to be some small fires somewhere.
People throw out the term mediocre way to often. We aren't mediocre yet. If Lebo had us to the point of mediocrity, I would be much more willing to keep him around. We ain't there yet.
we should give him another chance....we should give him another chance... he needs to be cut loose, but if he's not, we should give him another chance.
Definitely cut him loose....unless there's another chance.
For some reason, I have a vision of Frankenbummer as Kevin Bacon in Footloose.
Lebo - stay or go - not my decision and I have said all I am going to. If he stays I will still pull for Auburn.
I with you digger, where or not he stays or goes I am still Auburn all the way. I will not stop supporting the team just because of the coach.
Expectations should be higher than they are in general. However with all the money that was just dropped into the arena, expectations should be coming up a lot.
I have never seen Footloose. Have nothing against it, just never seen it.
RK ... I concur.
Looking at all those coaching records, they look like Auburn's free throw shooting statistics.
I too have never seen Footloose. I've also never seen Grease. Now, it's almost like a quest - I'll just refuse to watch either one of them. Just because.
Speaking of movies; Imagine you're at the movies and someone asks you to stop talking on your cellphone. Do you: C) Stab him in the neck with a meat thermometer?
No, YOU shut up!
I went to at least a couple of movies at this specific theater while doing my time in California last summer.
Jet ...more importantly than fan support helping the outcome of an individual game, rabid fan support can help recruiting and perception of the program.
I hear AU BBall fans whining that we aren't successful because the coach doesn't drum up support. How about those same fans going to the games and drumming up support by attending. I'm never in support of a group sitting around complaining and blaming others when there's action that can be taken. Big time recruits don't want to go to a school where the fans whine that the problem is the coach doesn't drum up support. Big time recruits want to go somewhere that the fans live and breathe basketball, show up and cheer loudly regardless of who the coach is or what the record is.
The little bit of AU basketball I saw this year was greatly missing some simple fundamentals and that is indeed the coaches' fault. Nevertheless, I blame the fans for the fact that AU isn't a top BBall school. Great fan support can overcome the AAU and the honest recruiting handcuffs.
If we don't want to be a top BBall school then so be it, I personally don't care. If the BBall fans at AU want a top program then they need to get off their rear ends, quit complaining, go to games and scream their heads off.
Breast milk biohazard, booty injections, bikini shaving, meat thermometer stabbings - you guys have too much time on your hands!
HABOTN is never boring - you never know what you might learn here.
Norm ..read the meat thermometer attack article. You've been to that theatre ...Is there anything special about it that would allow the 3 attackers to escape from a 24-plex theatre???
ED KING!
This comment has been removed by the author.
CincyT ..just think. The Thighmaster hasn't yet shown up with the Eurasian nutty news reports.
Hoopie,
I'm holding my breath with anticipation!
I'm surprised The Hurt Locker won Best Picture last night.
It was a fine movie. It was not great in my estimation. Then again, was there a great movie released in 2009?
I had no idea the Hurt Locker won best picture. But I think its deserving,it was probably the best movie I saw this past year.
Did the Dude win anything?
I say we go out and re-hire either Jordan or Eaves.
Well I say AU should hire Patches O'Houlihan. He's an excellent motivator with some might say unorthodox methods but his success is evident.
Guess who I saw in DC today.
Here's a hint: He's well over 3 feet tall and he coaches an evil SEC football team.
This whole "if the fans supported them more" argument is completely bogus. This is Zen and Johnny Cochran all rolled into one: If you want to get the people in, you got to learn how to win. Nobody with any sense spends their time supporting losers. It's not a question of fanhood. I love Auburn, but I am not going to waste a)my money and b)my time. But, I still love Auburn. If Lebo gives me reason to believe that he can field a team that at least has an outside chance at winning significantly more than they lose, then I'll give them my time and my money. My investment would be rewarded. Otherwise, forget about it. Ain't happening.
Norm- Patches is dead, much like our basketball program
I didn't start having a successful mutant goat breeding program until lots of people started showing up to watch my methods. Sure, most of them were federal investigators, but still, they helped.
michael, one of our cats is missing and i swear i saw a cat/goat hybrind the other day. You have anything to do with this?
Depends on how you define "anything". Did I create a cat/goat hybrid species that feeds on cats? Yes. Did I bring one to your neighborhood to help me pick up some of debris from that helicopter that crashed, just to do you a favor? Sure I did. Did I say to the goatcat, "Hey, there is Harrison's cat. Go eat it."? Of course I did.
Did I personally at any point touch your cat, other than when I shoved it in my goatcat's mouth? No. No I didn't. So no, I didn't have "anything" to do with it.
So this goatcat also eats cats? you're starting to cost me a lot of money and arguments with my wife about what happened to the cats. I'll let this one slide
Michael, did you by chance also create a goat/catfish hybrid that feeds on catfish? I need to know.
...or can the goatcat swim and accepts catfish as alternate prey?
Scott, never ask me about my business.
But if I did create one, then yes, that's how it would survive. You see, the cat/catfish part of the hybrid would need to feed on its own species to sustain itself. It's all very sciency, I wouldn't expect you to understand. Why doesn't the goat side have to eat goats? Because goats are different, man.
Since Harrison didn't get called out for asking MJT about his business, I'm taking that as proof that he paid to have his wife's cat eaten.
Phred ... And I thought you were the Zen Master.
I guess it's just sheer coincidence that Auburn's best games were when more people were in the stands. We've got our part to play in this.
Either way, my thing is if we're going to spend $90 million plus on an arena, the only obligation we have to the coach is to have the best one possible. I don't think Lebo's that guy.
Well, if that's true it ate the wrong cat. I would not have made that mistake.
Darvin Adams. Helllooooo Kennesaw, Ga!!
wow, that was fortuitous. Just got paroled.
I just caught up reading the thread after helping MrsTHT with some calculations and chatting with LGGByron who is in London and.... still at post 89? Am I in some kind of alternate reality? I need to go watch SNG and figure out how I get back in the true HABOTN reality.
I hope Jay G doesn't mind if I do this, and if he does please delete.
If anyone is a fan (or knows someone who is a fan) of the band Wilco, I have 2 tickets I need to get rid of for their show in Atlanta on Friday, March 26th. My dad is having surgery the day before and will be in the hospital for several days and I won't be able to attend the show. I'm probably going to end up putting the tickets out on ebay, but thought I might ask around on here. Just shoot me an email.
Again if it's not cool, I do apologize and delete this post.
Thanks!
Hey WERK,
I've been hawking a condo and 4 cemetery plots on here and I haven't gotten thrown off yet :) Good luck to your dad and I hope you sell your tickets.
RK...I approve of hawking Wilco tickets on HABOTN.
And I'm tempted, but I don't know if I can get anyone to go with me.
Cause there's a light. What light?
Wilco tickets aside, though, thoughts and prayers for your Dad, RK.
Thanks, he's going through a rough time so any thoughts and prayers are greatly appreciated.
Prayers are definitely sent from my direction WERK. Good luck unloading the tickets and I hope everything works out for your dad
I must say... the word "success" gets tossed around quite liberally.
From the looks of things, we may have already passed the 5 year threshold and will now have to wait on 10 years to lapse. There is no precedent for cutting ties between the two marks.
I don't like to see hardcore HOTTIES ripping the Advertiser.
It's one thing for regular fans to rip. It's another thing for people who know about me and know what my job means to me to rip the Advertiser for general suckitude.
Maybe it sucks sometimes. Maybe I suck sometimes. I know that I have gone above and beyond to make the Auburn coverage useful. I think 99% of you all will agree.
The end.
I live a bajillion miles from Montgomery, so I very rarely touch a paper copy of the Advertiser, and I rarely read an article that you didn't write. So I can't comment on the overall quality of the paper. But I do love the pieces that you write and if its any indicator of what the rest of the advertiser has to offer those that are in the Montgomery area have it good.
You're very kind to say so.
Jay,
Who's ripping the MA? You want me to beat him up?
I love your articles, but that is about all I read from the MA.
RK ... all the best with your dad.
Who was raggin' on the rag?
RK,
Prayers for you, your dad, and your family. I hope everything goes well with the procedure and he has a good recovery.
Cincytiger vs that hardcore Hottie, "MA Ripper", a the flagpole tomorrow after school.
My money is on Cincytiger.
somebody hit thejackpot
I guess now is as good a time as any to start pimping the 2nd annual HABOTN Bracket Challenge.
Email invitations have been sent to all those who participated last year. A Tweet has been twitted for those who follow me on Twitter (possibly retweeted by JGT?) For those newbies, and any other rapscallions who wishes to sign up... the sign up information is below (use the group ID # and password to join). Go to Yahoo! Fantasy Sports to sign up.
Group Name: HABOTN HOTTIES
GROUP ID #: 26461
PASSWORD: hatebama
I'm in.
j-z, did you get the email invite or just see the info here on the blog?
I'm just curious if the email invites went through.
I got the invite Miller.
email.
Now I just have to remember to finish my bracket this year.
DMiller ...
I got my invite through my email.
Since I've watched exactly 30 minutes of college basketball this year, I'll be basing my picks strictly on team mascot names.
Jay G's former dorm mate, Scott Sutton, is getting hammered by IUPUI, a Lebo victim this season.
We've had a Fail Whale sighting
I'll try to send out reminders to everyone to fill out their brackets.
I will be submitting a questionnaire to the 65 coaches with three questions. Their responses will determine my choices. The questions:
1. Tommy Tuberville: duck hunta, live to punta, or victim of junta?
2. Ziemba false starts: "He's just in a hurry or "We should be worried?"
3. Jay G's next gig: ESPN or Dancing with the Stars?
I trimmed all the bushes and crepe myrtles in my yard today and I can hardly move!
miller, I will try and fill out a bracket, but I don't know anything about basketball!
Calling it a night. Can't wait to see what stories are posted in the morning.
RK ...Prayers and best wishes for your Dad.
I use the internet to read some of the MA articles other than Homer's articles. Considering the size of the city of Montgomery, the MA does alright. Gannett ownership probably ensures that a certain level of reporting substance is maintained.
Ill do that bracket thing the day before LOL...Jay G who am i beating up?
Good morning, Hotties! Rise and shine. We're going to have rain in the Ham today. Glad I got all my yardwork done yesterday. But, boy do I feel it this morning. I think I am getting old :)
Morning Hotties
WERK - best of luck to your dad. He had some heart surgery 6 months or so ago? I'm a hipster doofus and have no idea who this band is you reference so I'm not personally interested. But, since it's practically in my backyard, I'll be glad to put the word out to folks around here if that helps.
JGT/Homer/Sportswriter Tate - I haven't bought an Advertiser in quite awhile. Heck, I didn't buy it regularly even when I lived there. Nowadays, I get most everything online. This includes stuff from The Advertiser. Though when I'm there, I don't spend too much time on any portion of the site not Sports. So, no gripes from me.
Good morning, Hotties! Is it really only Tuesday? (big sigh)
As with most things, there are a lot of opinions on the coaching situation at Auburn. Like Digger, I have nothing else to say on the matter. Being such a huge football supporter, we can't afford to go to all the basketball games. It's also too far to drive on school nights. But, regardless of who the coach is, we will continue to go to a few games a year.
Anyone that rips on the MA doesn't deserve to be a Hottie. We all know how hard Jay G works to bring us Auburn information with substance. That alone should garner respect for the paper for which he works.
RK- Prayers sent!
Well day is off to a great start. After the 1 hour commute, I realized I left my laptop at home. This day is going to suck.
Eddie,
I hate it when I have days like that! Hope it gets better.
New, minor thread UPZ.
I'm just going to chuckle at Cincy trimming the bushes on this page where no one will see it.
sorry, j-z, I saw that
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