A glance at Tuesday's schedule
Hey everyone. Considering there was no news yesterday, we did quite well to bang out almost 300 comments. Well done.TODAY'S HAPPENINGS: Auburn has practice this morning followed by player interviews around 11 a.m. Tuberville speaks at 1 p.m. I'm aiming to run a live blog for that 1 o'clock shindig, so you can get immediate reaction to what Tuberville is saying about his team's situation.
I'll follow that with a video (around 3 p.m.) and other stuff.
RING OF FIRE INDUCTION: After some exhuastive research that included a trip to Tijuana, I have made final RoF decisions. We're printing up napkins and monogramming fine china as we speak. That announcement will be made Thursday afternoon, so save the date.
posted by Jay G. Tate at
7:20 AM
174 Comments:
I wait with bated breath on who the new ROF member will be. I'm sure my status is in question since I have lost the will to discuss Auburn anymore.
Hip-Hop, there's always basketball...wait, no, there's always baseball...uhm...there's always recruiting....I mean, there's always next year.
Hang in there, we are all in the same boat in Auburn-land. At least we can still laugh about it. Right?
If you can't laugh about this season, what can you do?
Well if you can't laugh, it seems you can find places to lay the blame and run down the list of dream coaches in the roladex.
That's at least all I'm seeing.
As far as the ROF goes, I can only hope that I'm in the running.
(If I have to, I'll campaign to be listed among the greats in HABOTN history. Jay, just remember who told you about the Weezer concert that would occur on your off Saturday.)
Terrence Coleman, Rivals 3 star prospect, ranked 11th best player in the state. Verbal to Auburn. Almighty Nick Saban said he has the best D lineman film he's seen in a long, long time.
Quinton Dial, Rivals 4 star prospects, ranked 12th best player in the state. Verbal to Alabama.
See anything funny?
RK- You get my vote, but so does Steve from Columbia & Mr. Sensible.
Yeah, people get worked up over Rivals star ratings.
I don't understand star ratings on 17-18 year old kids who you never know if they are done developing yet...nor do you know if they have the mental and physical ability to survive at the college level.
The POINT is...
How can a player ranked higher than another player have a lower "star rating"?
The opposite end of the spectrum that believes these services are worthless are pretty uninformed, too. Are Julio Jones and AJ Green not major impact players?
look at RK throwing down the trump card with the Weezer concert. atta boy!
The thing about recruiting is that you would much rather have all five stars than all three stars, but just enough no names pan out and just enough five stars go bust that you shouldnt hang on every commitment like it's the end of the program if we dont get someone.
I'm not saying they services are worthless, I'm saying their rankings are. You have two players, one plays at a Florida 6-A school against tough competition and one plays in Arkansas 2-A school and it's hard to compare them against each other, because it's not like they are playing the same level of competition or with the same surrounding players who can make them look better than they really are.
I'd say the recruiting services are 50/50 with their best guesses.
WR is probably the easiest to predict with linemen & QB's being the hardest.
I agree hip-hop.
Sometimes a 5 star bust is equal to a 2 or 3 star, but just had a mountain of hype to live up to.
Sometimes, guys. Sometimes...
My initial post wasn't intended as a rant or to trigger a rant. Just saw something kind of comical this morning.
Have a good one.
jay
what a touch - building the anticipation...the hotness gets hotter every time i read.
Eddie,
Thanks for the support, but Zombie Squad guys like me aren't meant for the RoF. I'm just here to keep the realness flowing and join in the rowing team of Hotties as we paddle up Zen creek.
RK, SteveFC, & Eddie$ are most worthy.
BTW, RK. You nailed it on OL and QBs. We've seen so many not pan out in those categories.
Of course, Rivals is Bama owned and operated. Just throwing that out there.
By the way, Scott Brown who appears on the Finebaum Radio Network for AU Undercover is a real person. He's actual Managing Editor for AU Undercover.
Just wanted to pass that along.
Have a good morning.
Having never followed recuriting as closely as others, I only glance at Scout and Rivals every now and then before late January, I guess I've never got into the hype around players that may or may not pan out.
I know those sites are a necessary evil for those who can't get enough of it.
So I take it Scout is more reliable than Rivals?
Hip- I would like to have the guys that the coaches want and go after. The problem last year is that we lost out on a handful of Saban that we offered and wanted. I'm not a big fan of stars, I'm a fan of getting the people that are high on your wish list after they have been evaluated.
Jay,
Will all the Charter Members have to dust off our ROF Jackets and sit on the Stage behind the new Class of 2008 inductees?
I'm just asking cuz i have to get my jacket cleaned after the last ROF shindig!!!
It was off the hook for sheezy!
RK- Scout and Rivals are both equal in my mind as far as reliable recruiting services. I'm a member of Rivals, but I didn't join for the recruiting. I like those site for the stories and I used to enjoy the forums until they turned all trash and negative. The sky is always falling no matter what happens it seems.
Thanks Mr. Sensible, but I will wait my turn.
Eddie,
I agree with that. I hope the coaches get who they want, but let's be honest- if every five star decided tomorrow that they wanted to come to Auburn the coaches would scratch their "wish list" and grab all the top talent they could.
And I'm in the same boat as RK in that I dont really follow it other than occasionally checking scout to see who has committed. It just seems silly to get up in arms over kids when there are SO MANY variables that go into making a good college player. Too much can go wrong.
CTT has me a bit concerned. There is a sense of vacillation and equivocation. When I was U of L, we had some pot holes, but we stuck with what I thought was the best formula that we could be successful. There have been a series of missteps that began last year and our culminating right now.
CTT used up a good portion of good will with all concerned with his "am I staying or am I going" game last year. Bad move. Then he canned Al Borges and brought in Tony Franklin and basically ran one game of the Spread. Good Move. Later, committed all of the valuble spring break and summer practice time to the Spread. Good move. However, as it turns out, it appears that only lip service was being paid to the "committment" to the spread. Bad move, actually a triple power bad move. Now, is currently paying not one, but two, OCs undisclosed salaries NOT to coach football. From a CEO point of view, very bad move. It appears to me that he has not conducted honest evaluations of his so called Barbeque Buddy coaches. Bad move.
For a coach that so fervently wants to have control over his program, this has not been a good year in terms of demonstrating executive skills.
That is not to say that corporate wonks with MBAs don't make mistakes. Who here remembers the Coca Cola debacle when they changed their formula. I am sure there are countless others.
So, my point is that CTT was decisive and made tough decisions to right a floundering ship ...I think it was a good move.
The long term questions have yet to be answered, and to my knowledge, I don't know it they are even being thought of right now.
the 'our' should be are. My bad.
So, Denny Crum, do you think CTT should be given the chance to right the ship or thrown overboard like Jonah?
Just the thought of Denny Crum saying "my bad" in a press conference is priceless.
I think he should be allowed to right the ship. I think he has earned that much, if not more.
How about instead of "my bad", a:
the 'our' should be are. Please excuse my lack of execution in proofreading my post and my obvious error in grammor. MCP alert.....
Thanks for answering DC.
sensible you gotta be in the RoF I mean...you're COBRA!!
Look forward to your info later on this morning. WD JGT.
Alright Hotties, besides Fulmer (enough rumors about that), are there any other SEC coaches that you all think will not be here in 2009?
Croom is probably the second or third hottest seat now
Croom is probably the second or third hottest seat now. I mean how patient has MSU going to be. One minute he's got it fixed and then he is still building. I like the guy really but I think he has had enough time..how long has he been there now 5-6 years?
Spurrier might be on a self inflicted hot seat. I'm not sure if he's got the fire to be average at SC anymore. I could be wrong.
Croom probably bought himself at least one more year with how they played last year. No matter what, it'll be a media nightmare for MSU to fire him.
I'd say Fulmer & Tub are # 1 & 2 on the SEC list right now.
sorry bout the 2 post .computer went a little weird for a min. That's what I get for playing at work..aight so back to work. talk to you HOTTIES later. WAR EAGLE
I too think Croom has at least another year to get something positive back on the field there.
Man, Sherrill must have left the cupboard totally bare in Starkville.
I'll give you one Mr. Sensible- Vandy's Bobby Johnson. If he doesn't win another game, he might find himself on the outs as silly as that might seem.
I can see Steve playing golf, working as an analyst on the PFRN, and chillin' after this year. I mean, when your team isn't as big as Hootie in town, what else can you do.
I don't see Tubs that high on the hotseat though. This could turn into Houston Nutt at Arkansas for Auburn. The similarities are eerie...
we want mike leach
Why does a 3.78 million dollar man deserve another shot to right this tattered, sinking ship? Because there's potential? There will always be potential at Auburn. It can't be because he's abused his SEC Championship appearance clause. He's been twice and won once in a decade.
Tuberville prevents Auburn from crossing over into championship territory these days. You can predict that he'll have a new head of steam after this year's shocking disappointmnent if you feel like it. But, the older you get the more conservative you get. Fact.
Auburn needs top offensive talent and it needs to score points. Auburn needs new blood. The Tuberville cycle has come to its end.
Mike Leach would be Tony Franklin as a head coach down here and would go over like a lead balloon with bricks sailing over Panama City Beach.
Nothing against Leach - great coach. But when the players, boosters, fans, etc. all talk about getting back to Auburn football, they aren't talking about what Mike Leach puts on the field.
Sorry to disagree with an RoF member...
I don't see Bobby Johnson getting canned at Vandy.
However, as I said right after we lost to Vandy. It's obvious they aren't a good team. Good for Vandy, yes. Good overall, no.
I wish Tub can get things going in the right direction and get us to a higher level, but I haven't seen anything in the past 10 years other than 2004 & 2005 that shows he can be an elite level coach.
Good, yes. Sometimes very good, yes. Elite, no.
Crudup and RK,
Who can Auburn get that can do better than what Tubs has done or will do?
Honestly...
It is time to end the charade with CTT. He cannot take us to the promised land.
Those of you that want to only see people graduate and win 6-8 games a year should cheer for Pat at Samford or Vanderbilt.
Dang, Mark laying the smack down early...
wow, feel the heat...
ok what about recruiting...love to talk recruiting...something that doesnt happen until february...has anybody jumped ship yet? no new commitments I am sure...
how do I get a little "B" by my name?
Tuberville should be allowed to stay. This offense isn't bad, it's just misunderstood. If the coaches understood it and the players understood it, it would be much more successful.
nevermind, I guess I figured it out.
Sensible,
Honestly it just depends on what you think Tommy will do in the future. If you think things will turn around and he'll average 10 wins in the future, not lose games against teams we have no business losing to, cut the unprepared looking blowouts that make no sense and get us trips to the SEC title game every 3 or 4 years, then probably there aren't many coaches out there who could do a better job.
If you believe that he will continue on the trend that is currently going on 8-9 wins per year, unexplained losses either via blowout or to teams that shouldn't be beating us and a trip to Atlanta every 5 years, then there are probably a lot of coaches out there that can accomplish this at Auburn.
I think Tub it's possible that Tub can do either scenario, but judging by past performance the 1st option is what we've had for the past 10 years. It's been a good 10 years too, but not great.
Eventually we have to either settle in with being an upper middle level team in the conference and nationally and get used to being just good enough to be 2nd in the SEC West behind which ever team is the dominant team that year or we have to decide that's not good enough and take the steps to make a serious run at being a year in and year out top 10 SEC champion level team.
Steve, Do you honestly think CTT can win the NC at Auburn?
"This offense isn't bad, it's just misunderstood."
That quote is very Tubervillian.
RK, I'm not sure Tubs can win a BCSNC at Auburn.
I know he can win an SECC and get Auburn in the mix.
I'm just afraid if Auburn hits the eject button now, the setback will last for a decade vs. a year or so.
Maybe I'm just a little more than concerned with the upward trend of teams closest to Auburn right now. (Georgia, Alabama, and Ole Miss to start with)
I don't really focus on NCs. I focus on winning games first and the SEC title next. Those are things that we control. The NC is a lot about luck, so I don't get all hot and bothered about it.
We are about the 3rd best team in the SEC this decade in terms of wins. That isn't too shabby considering the SEC is by far the toughest conference, with only the Big 12 coming close.
Even this years Auburn team would likely win the ACC, although there are probably half of the SEC that could do that.
If we decide to go another route and bring in another coach, we could end up on the coaching carousel that Bama has been on for around 25 years. That is not how you build a program.
The biggest reason I am for Tuberville remaining is that he is willing to make changes. He has repeatedly shown that. I know that some will criticize the barbeque boys, but they have been very successful. Tuberville could have stuck with Borges and we would probably have had a better season this year. Tuberville is obviously looking to take us to the next level, so he should be given the opportunity. He could have stuck with the power running game, won 9 or 10 games, and been secure in his job. He didn't. He took a risk. Give him credit for that.
I'm more concerned with the downward trend under Tub than the upward trend of others.
Eventually just being in the mix isn't good enough.
If the right coach is brought in, then the setback won't be a long one.
We have talent on the team right now, just no playmakers. When Tub took over we didn't have talent or playmakers.
I would love for Tommy to be the guy who turns it around, because personally I like the guy, but I'm just not sure he can be the guy to get us to a higher level than where we currently are.
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"I don't really focus on NCs. I focus on winning games first and the SEC title next. Those are things that we control."
Steve, are you Tub's writer?
"The biggest reason I am for Tuberville remaining is that he is willing to make changes. He has repeatedly shown that."
One could look at that and say repeatedly showing that you are willing to make change is a sign that you are making too many mistakes that necessitate that change.
Just playing devil's advocate.
I don't know, I'm beginning to think I expect too much as an Auburn fan...
I would like to nominate Mr Sensible for RoF since he often agrees with me, so he is obviously very intelligent.
I would also like to see eddie4au move up. He disagrees with me more, but I do like his opinions.
Michael should be feeling the heat based upon hist cool avatar alone.
FakeSteveJobs should feel the heat as our token Bama fan.
Thanks for the love, SteveFC.
But, as stated earlier, my job isn't to be on the big stage. I'm here to keep the realness flowing and (when authorized by Jay G) bring the funk down on lurkers and haters of the Hotties.
It's good to be a Hottie. It's an honor to feel the heat.
But Zombie Squad duty ain't for glory...it's the cure the disease...
Fight the power!
I expect Auburn to field a team that is well prepared and has a chance to beat anyone. There will always be the occasional setbacks against teams like Ole Miss or Arkansas. It is the reality of college football these days. If you look at the upsets that go on most weeks, it has become the norm. It is going to happen occasionally. The days of one team dominating the SEC are over.
I agree that the days of Spurrier at Florida or Bryant at Alabama are probably long gone...however the days of UGA and LSU winning 3 SEC titles in 6 or 7 years are alive and well and I want Auburn to be listed among the elite like that.
The occasional loss to a lower level team does happen in this era of football. However doing it once a year along with an unexpected blowout where you look like you aren't even ready to play shouldn't happen every year.
I will say that this merry-go-round of offense has got to end though.
I don't expect to win it every year. I expect Auburn to be competitive and represent the school, town, and history in a respectable way.
Can't do that when you change strategy every 2-3 years (games).
You mean every two or three quarters, right?
I guess I am among the minority here that thinks CTT should move on. I think 10 years of being better than average speaks for itself. IMO Auburn football can be elite, not simply better than average.
I don't think the question should be "Who can we get that can do a better job?" You can have a good idea of how someone will perform, but until they are actually in there doing the job then all you have is speculation.
The question should be "Is Auburn willing to take a chance on someone else?" It's a risk/reward proposition. Of course, if the powers that be are willing to take such a risk, the risk should be calculated, researched, thought out, and not simply a knee jerk reaction.
Steve:
I think you answered my question. No, he cannot win a National Championship.
You said you were focused on winning games and the SEC.
Okay, how many SEC championships has he won. One!!
It is time.
For what it's worth...
I'd like to extend the title of Honorary Zombie Squad Membership to:
SteveFC, RK, and Eddie
Because you all bring the heat with each post
Because you all stand and hold your position while still accepting comments of diff. opinion
Because you consistently make the HABOTN the place to be for info. and fan interaction.
This position carries no responsibilities and no hindering of upward movement.
Thanks fellas.
I think Mr. Sensible is right again - replacing Tubs now could set us back for a decade. I also think a lot of AU people underestimate how difficult it is to win big at Auburn. A lot of things work against us, and history shows winning championships does not come easy no matter who the coach is.
In my 54 years, Auburn has won only 4 outright SEC titles. Shug won 1 in 25 years, Barfield none, Dye two, Bowden none and Tubs 1. Why do people think we can bring in a coach now that will suddenly change that?
The Pat Dye era is often held up as the golden standard at AU, but he only won 2 outright titles and I would argue that it was a lot easier to win them back then than it is now. Dye also won co-championships 2 years, but they would not count under the current system. The 88 team played in the Sugar Bowl, but we tied with LSU for the championship and they beat us head-up. Under the current system, AU wouldn't have even made the championship game that year. The 89 team finished in a 3 way tie and we weren't selected as the Sugar Bowl team that year. If Tubs had coached under the system that Dye did, he could have claimed a championship in 2005 when we were 7-1. I don't think its fair to compare the Dye era to the Tubs era and conclude that Dye was a lot better.
And nobody in my lifetime has beaten Bama 6 in a row except Tubs. And from all we can tell, Tubs hasn't cheated. And if the system were fair, Tubs would have a BCS championship.
Don't think I didn't love the Dye era, but I think the Tubs era has been just as good, if not a little better. And I think firing him now will be a disaster.
If you don't think beating bama is that important, lets just try losing 9 in a row to them and see if that changes anyone's mind. ;)
Since I have registered and put up several posts, does that make me an official Hottie? If so, I need to tell my wife about this.
War Eagle!
The SEC now
Welcome Coosa! Way to bring it, man!
That's my point exactly. What are we upgrading to? To answer James in BHam's question, no, I do not think the risk is worth the reward at this time.
Thanks, Scottie. If anyone has Phred's email you should send him the Rasta Tommy link.
Hotties, 72 comments in less than three hours...
AWESOME
I do think CTT can win an MNC at Auburn, I just don't think that should be the criteria by which a head coach is judged. Look at Miles and last year. He makes some of the most bonehead calls I have seen. He should qualify for a Dubosian award, but the ball bounced his way.
I am a big believer in the Serenity Prayer. Focusing on winning games and the SEC are what matters. The MNC is a crap shoot, so I don't get all wrapped up in it.
When a Pat Dye team lost, it was a big shock...when they lost to a bad team (which almost never happened) it was big news...when they got blown out for being unprepared (which almost never happened) it was the rarest of rare games.
Dye coached teams were held in higher esteem by the people who do the polls because they were consistant.
None of this is a knock on Tub, it's just the difference between the teams even though they both have similar records.
Tub runs a cleaner program, and the W's & L's are almost the same...the overall status of the program is lower than where we were in 1990 during Dye's 10th year.
Lots of good posts today. Being cold outside it's good to feel the heat here on HABOTN.
Honarary Zombie Squad, I like that. I'm not sure what it means, but it's very seasonal right now.
I agree, playing for the National Title is a crap shoot, but I just wish we could get past the crap and take a shot.
You do mention that the SEC is what's important, so one trip to Atlanta every 5 years is enough?
Does MNC=Mythical National Championship
1 SECC in 10 years doesnt cut it in my book. Thanks for the good times Tubs but it's time to move on.
To the people who are saying that getting rid of him will set us back a decade, what happens when he leaves at the end of this contract? Shouldnt we do it now rather than have a few more 8 win seasons?
thanks Mr sensible- I accept.
Steve- I love that we can have our opinions and debate them here in a civilzed way. It makes this place great.
I need some heat Hotties. I'm at a job site and freezing right now as I post from my iPhone.
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One trip to the SECCG every 5 years is frustrating. I do think it will improve though. Look back at the other great Auburn coaches. Who would have done better? Not Shug. Dye did to some degree. The current system makes it unlikely for a team to continuously make the SECCG. I would like to see us there every 3 or 4 years. We have been very close to do much better than that.
What I would like to see is Tuberville find some coordinators that will stick with Auburn. Neither Dye or Shug had to deal with the coaching carousel. A lot of it has been because Tuberville picked very good coordinators.
I hope Rhodes stays for a long time. I think he was a great choice. Look at how long he stayed at Pitt. Now, we need to find an OC that wants to stick with Auburn.
The coaching carousel is probably the biggest thing that has kept us from being in the SECCG more regularly.
Zombie Squad
- those committed to rolling up the sleeves, posting solid content here either by computer, phone, carrier pigeon and those with a reputation doing "the dirty work"
SteveFC wrote: "I hope Rhodes stays for a long time. I think he was a great choice. Look at how long he stayed at Pitt. Now, we need to find an OC that wants to stick with Auburn.
The coaching carousel is probably the biggest thing that has kept us from being in the SECCG more regularly."
Exactly! Let's find the Paul Rhodes of OCs and go with it.
Yes, MNC is definitely Mythical National Championship. I don't think there ever will be a true national championship until some kind of playoff is implemented. The plus one system would cover most years, but I think it would take an 8 team playoff to pretty much cover any year.
By the way, if MLB is upset by weather problems with the World Series, end the baseball season when Summer ends!
Coosa, You're a hottie so you better let the wife know.
Also, you made excellent points when you said, "In my 54 years, Auburn has won only 4 outright SEC titles. Shug won 1 in 25 years, Barfield none, Dye two, Bowden none and Tubs 1."
I mean it when I say I don't measure our success by bama standards, but I also know we only have to look to Saban as an answer to your question, "Why do people think we can bring in a coach now that will suddenly change that?" Saban isn't the only coach to come in and turn a team around quickly. So, I don't think it's unreasonable to think it's possible. It is possible.
I think lots of you make good points for keeping CTT. However, when I see you post reasons that sound like fear, that's when you lose me.
I get the sense some think we shouldn't make changes because this is as good as it gets. That doesn't cut it for me.
I think James and Eddie mirror my feelings about it. It's time to step it up. I don't know what combination of staff changes that will take. I just know changes need to happen.
Our fear should not be that this is as good as it gets. Our fear should be that we ever settle for mediocrity.
LSU has been to Atlanta 4 times in 7 years.
Georgia 3 times in 6 years.
We have been twice in 9 years.
Arkansas has been twice in the last 6 years.
Tennessee has been twice in the last 5 years and 3 times in the last 8 years.
Right now Arkansas and Tennessee are going to Atlanta more often than us. We win more games than those two teams, but they have gotten to Atlanta just as much or more times than us.
Do we really accept being at the same level of Arkansas and Tennessee (who has been really down) over the past decade when it comes to championship opportunties?
There is a lot of talk that there can't be dominant teams anymore, but there is no excuse to not be at the LSU/UGA level.
Agreed SteveFC. I went to college at a D-II school and the playoffs were always exciting and there was no doubt who was Number 1 when the season ended.
If this is the Plus One formula you are referring to, I'm all for it: Take the top 4 teams. Put them in two of the BCS bowls. The winners play one week later in the BCS game already designated. Rotate the game locations between already designated BCS bowls.
Here is an interesting link about the SECCG.
SECCG
16 games so far, and UF leads in # of appearances with 8. The bammers an UT have both been 5 times. AU has been 3 times.
During CTTs tenure, LSU has been 4 times, AU twice, ARKY twice, and bammer once.
LSU has shown the consistency here that I believe Auburn could achieve. At his current rate of production, CTT is no better at it than Nutt, which is saying something.
RK I must be channeling your thoughts...
I don't want to give anybody the impression that I didn't appreciate the Pat Dye years, cause I surely did, but he put some teams out there that were unprepared just as Tubs has.
1984 Kickoff Classic - weren't we ranked #1? I think we were, but we sure looked awful in losing to a weak Miami team.
1984 AL game - AL had won 4 games and still beat us.
1985 at TN - I know we were ranked #1 that game, and got absolutely clobbered. Want to see a worse offense than what we have this year? Find some tape of that game and you'll see one.
The thing about Dye that always got me was that he became more conservative and predictable as the years went by. I'll never forget the Maryland game in 1983. We were up 28-23 with about 3 minutes left, 4th and 3 at our own 30, and Dye went for it. Finebaum would have had material for years if it didn't work, but it did and AU won. In later years he wouldn't have dreamed of taking a chance like that.
Dye was a very good coach, so is Tubs. Nobody can be on top all the time; life just doesn't work that way and SEC football sure doesn't.
Monica, I don't think we have been in any way Mediocre. We have been about the 3rd best program in the SEC this decade.
From what Tuberville has said, he has been looking to take us to the next level. He has shown he is willing to make changes.
As for Saban, one season doesn't mean that much. Shula had his 10 win season and Bama was back, for a little while.
There are also different types of coaches. There are many more coaches out there that can come in and turn a program around. It is much more difficult to sustain a program.
Look at FSU. It took Bowden forever to win a MNC, but he will go down as one of the greatest coaches of all time.
ooooohhh... Zombie Squad. How do you get to be one of those? RoF is nice and all, but ZOMBIE SQUAD? Listen to that ring.
We'll all be zombies after watching 3 of the next 4 AU games if something doesn't change!
With Dye, the biggest disappointment I remember was in the Cotton Bowl against Texas A&M. There is nothing like watching a wishbone offense that can't fun. It was liking watching a fish that didn't know how to swim.
This is from an article from 2003 written by Stewart Mandel, the main college football dude at Sports Illustrated. It is interesting to look at our situation form the national perspective and not the crazed-fan we-deserve-better perspective. Not saying I fully agree with it or it fully applies to our situation, but like I said, it is interesting to read:
"If you've been reading this column for a while, you know one of my biggest pet peeves is fans who want to run off their coach. That's because about 95 percent of the time, a school's fans have an unrealistically high perception of their place in the football universe and therefore hold their coach to unreasonable standards.
You might call this phenomenon the "Auburn-Clemson Syndrome," or ACS. Auburn is a program that has won exactly five SEC championships in 70 years of competition, four of them during one particularly glorious stretch from 1983-89. The Tigers have a coach who's contended for the division title nearly every year he's been there, and yet fans are ready to run him off after one disappointing season. That's a bad case of ACS."
So there you have it. We have a syndrome named after us.
James, I'm afraid you are right. Ha!
ZSquad appointments happen all the time. Thought it's not nearly as glorious as the Three Rings of HABOTN Honors.
PeterF and James in B'Ham are already in the ZS for obvious reasons. I mean, James and I are employed enforcers on the Campfire circuit.
Steve,
I think it boils down to a fundamental difference in how we define words like good and mediocre. For me, "3rd best program in the SEC this decade" isn't good enough when you consider our downward trend since 2004. I'm not going to repost those stats because they have been posted to death.
I'm not so sure you'd be saying one season doesn't mean much if we were the ones sitting at #2 in the nation with a record of 8-0. I may be wrong.
Sustaining a program at mediocre isn't enough for me. That's just me.
I don't think AU can go out and fin a "better" coach than CTT. I do think somebody like Muschamp would bring some much needed energy back into this program. Can you imagine the recruits that would love to play for that man? Let CWM hire a top notch OC and let him run his O and focus on the D with Rhoads. That sounds exciting to me. wde
Yes Mr.S, the power of the BanHammer is mighty.
Speaking of campfires, I really hope there is one later today. I need to feel the warm glow.
I don't understand the thought that a coaching change could set us back several years. If the right pieces are in place, then a coaching change can have immediate positive results.
In fact, Tuberville took us to an SECCG in his 2nd year. Urban Meyer won a SEC title and MNC in his 2nd year. Saban won a SEC title in his 2nd year at LSU and is #2 in his 2nd year at Bama. Richt won a SEC title in his 2nd year. Notice a trend?
If it is your contention that the right pieces are not in place to reach a high level in the immediate future, then Tuberville is to blame.
Coosa,
Both of the 1984 losses you mention to Miami & Alabama had more to do with Randy Campbell & Lionel James graduating after the 83 season.
Campbell was vastly underrated at running the offense and Pat Washington just wasn't a good replacement. We had somewhat down years in 84 and 85 due to bad QB play and Bo getting hurt a key points in the season.
Lionel James made it where teams couldn't just focus on Bo. Until Fullwood got some experience, Bo was all we had on offense to start 1984, and he ended up getting hurt and missing half the year.
As far as the 85 UT game goes, I still don't know what happened there. UT was a really good team that year, but they waxed us and there really isn't a good excuse I can give you as to why they did that. To this day UT fans still give me grief because of Bo not playing in the 2nd half of that game.
84-85 was to Dye what 03 was to Tub. You knew the guy could turn it around, it was just a matter of time. Dye went to a more pro-style offense and Tub hired Al Borges.
I just hope that 07-08 to Tub isn't want 90-91 was to Dye. Where start with high expectations the 1st year and struggle, but end up with a respectable record then the next year it starts to fall apart.
For every 85 Vols game that Dye had, Tub seems to have two like that.
Monica, i sent Phred the link. i'm sure he'll be happy.
I can't get over this stat on the SECCG:
"We have been twice in 9 years.
Arkansas has been twice in the last 6 years."
LSU i can handle, but Arkansas? That's discouraging.
The 85 Cotton Bowl was the reason we brought Pat Sullivan out of the broadcast booth to get Jeff Burger ready for 86 when we moved to a more pro-style offense.
Thanks Monica - glad to know I'm a hottie. ;)
But I don't think I'm posting fear, and I don't think the past 10 seasons have been mediocre.
I just think the best chance AU has to have good teams in the near future is to keep Tubs and let him do what he thinks is necessary to bring in the offensive coach or coaches that we need.
If we finish with a losing record this year, and do it again next year, then maybe its time for him to go.
Consider how things were back in the 60's. AU finished 9-1 in 63 and played in the Orange Bowl. The 64 team was ranked #1 by SI before the season began, but Sidle got hurt and they finished 6-4 and didn't play in a bowl. 65 team finished 5-4-1 and lost to Ole Miss in the Liberty Bowl. 66 team finished 4-6, 67 team and 68 were both 6-4. Now that's approaching mediocrity, yet Shug wasn't fired and I don't remember anybody even talking about firing him. Most had confidence he'd turn things around, and he did. The Sullivan era produced great AU teams, and then we had the Amazins and the 74 team that was very good. All that would have been missed if Shug had been fired in 68. Yet not a single SEC championship in those years. The SEC has always been tough.
In my mind, there's no way that its as easy to recruit kids to Auburn as it is for LSU, TN, FL or Bama. It takes a great coach to compete with those guys because they have so many built in advantages in their states. I wish it weren't that way, but that's the way its been all my life.
Thanks, Scottie and thanks for that SECCG stat. Ouch.
Monica, Auburn has been far from mediocre. Also, after the 2004 season, where else was there to go. We had good teams in 2005 and 2006. Last year wasn't as good, but it wasn't a bad season either. If we had beaten MSU we would have been in the SECCG. If we had beaten LSU, we would have been in the SECCG. A mediocre team doesn't regularly knock off teams that are ranked in the top 10.
Michael, excellent article. That is it exactly.
holy history lesson. fantastic thread going here, gang.
Michael Jan Terry, at least we haven't developed the Helsinki Syndrome.
Please, let the court reporter get this on the record. I am not advocating the release of CTT. I am advocating serious, significant change in coaching staff. I don't know if that means CTT at the helm with a complete upheaval in O staff or what.
I can even read the posts here fast enough to stay in the conversation. I'm too slow to make a good hottie. Gotta go do some work; I'll check back in tonight when there will be about 300 more posts to read.
War Eagle to all!
"Monica, Auburn has been far from mediocre... Last year wasn't as good, but it wasn't a bad season either.
Not as good, but not as bad, If that ain't mediocre I don't know what is.
Jim in Scranton, you make a good point but your examples are exactly what I'm saying.
Are you sure Auburn can get a coach like Urban Meyer, Mark Richt, Les Miles, or Nick Saban?
Update from player interviews:
Wes Byrum says he's struggling.
Zach Clayton said they're taking it one game at a time.
Shhhh. Don't tell anyone.
FYI ... I'm scheduled to appear on Bo Megginson's show today out of Mobile. In an unusual twist, he has informed me that he will disagree with my assertion that it's damn near impossible for coaches to properly administrate an offense that isn't theirs.
Should be an interesting segment.
Mr. S - Why wouldn't we be able to get such a coach? Are you saying some guy wouldn't want to leave a Utah to come to Auburn?
Saban has only had a couple of 10 win seasons in his career, so I wouldn't include him in that group.
I appreciate how difficult it is for Auburn compared to state schools like LSU.
However it's been done at Auburn, so it can be done again.
I appreciate Coosa's knowledge of history and the comments by Stewart Mandel, but that was a different era. What happened in the 60's & 70's under the dominance of Bear Bryant doesn't reflect on what we can be doing today.
Yes, Shug only won one SEC title and I'm guessing for that era the product he put out on the field was acceptable. Shug was a great man and means a lot to Auburn university, but if a coach today went 6-4, 5-5-1, 4-6 & 6-4 over a four year period like he did from 64-67 with 4 losses to the schools main rival then he's going to get canned at every SEC school other than Vandy despite the National title. Times are just different today.
Had we let Shug go at the end of 67 and brough Dooley home from UGA, which just 4 years into his job at UGA he probably would have came with no problem, then the history of Auburn football might have been a bit different.
However, Shug was a nice well respected man and times were different so he got a chance to right the ship, but I'm just saying we'd all be calling for his head today if we had had 4 straight years of that record...and I think we'd be justified as expectations are far greater than just beating Alabama every 4th year or so.
Saban coached at LSU 5 years, got to Atlanta twice.
He'll be getting to Atlanta this year in his second year in Alabama.
That's 3 shots in 6 years, that's pretty rock solid there. He belongs.
Mr. Sensible,
A Saban tpye? Probably not because we're not that desperate.
Richt was OC at FSU.
Meyer was HC at Utah.
Miles was HC at Ok St.
AU could surely get someone like them.
Jay, when Byrum mentions that he is struggling, the proper response is look who just caught up. Lack of consistency out of our kickers have been a major disappointment this season. I will give Durst a pass against WV since it was cold, but he has been the only half way consistent kicker.
RK, You got me all up in your Amen Corner today.
Thanks Monica.
Don't let it ever be said I don't think Tommy is a bad coach. In fact think he's a good coach and an even better person. It's just I'm not sure he can get us above the hump of being second tier in the nation and 2nd in the SEC west.
What RK said.
People, remember that Georgia was about ready to can their coach before last season. Look at what happened.
Come to think of it, maybe we just need a gimmick like Georgia's backout or the full team endzone celebration to change the momentum.
I got an idea. Change the music that is being played when the team takes the field. I have two alternative, the Soprano's theme of the True Blood theme. Either would be a significant change in attitude.
I don't recall UGA being ready to can Mark Richt at any point. I may have missed something.
Speaking of Richt, he has 5 less wins at Georgia in 2 less years than Tommy has had at Auburn.
No gimmicks needed, no strange color jerseys needed. We just need to score points. There was a different attitude after going up 17-3 on WVU than there has been all year.
We need to jump up on someone and hold onto it instead of letting it slip away...then you'll see an attitude change.
Music and jerseys are just gimmicks.
I'm not sure Auburn can get "that" coach.
I do think we can get an OC on the rise.
Where, I'll have to do some more research on and present later.
Interesting read from Kevin Scarbinsky today.
Click Here
From the above mentioned article:
"Every coach in the country right now wants Clemson," Jimmy Sexton [agent of coaches] said. "All of them. Because they feel like it's a quote `SEC' job.
"Eighty-something thousand people. Close to Georgia, in South Carolina, great recruiting base. But you play in a conference that isn't the SEC.
"A lot of coaches are starting to look at the SEC and say this might not be the best time to go there."
Look at Auburn. What's our recruiting base? Is it as good a situation as Clemson?
Just throwing it out there...
That is an excellent article Mr. Sensible. The SEC has never had this many top name coaches.
Butch Davis not going after the Arkansas job makes a lot of sense. Petrino taking it also makes sense because I think he was afraid he would damage his career if he stuck with the Falcons.
When the SEC may be at its peek, getting rid of Tuberville doesn't make sense. He has proven he can beat anyone.
As for people that don't like my theme music idea, maybe would should play "The Weight" by the "The Band".
I would take anything coming out of Sexton's mouth with a grain of salt. I can't help but think there was some spin in there somewhere, after all, Sexton is about his clients and getting them the most $$$ that he can.
With that said, I can see the viewpoint that some of his clients might want SEC type money but without SEC type pressure. Have your cake and eat it too? Of course!
One other thing to think about in relation to the article is pride. Some coaches would probably think that they could do good enough of a job to compete and win in the SEC versus another conference. Coaches are in it to win, and if you are going to go up against the best of your peers, then you do it in the SEC.
Interesting read for sure.
Oklahoma and Texas could come out to "I'm A Little Teapot" and "It's Raining Men" respectively, and I guarantee they will still be scoring a ton of points...
RK, this is for you.
I pulled into Auburn, where the offense is half-dead
I just need some place to get the Bammers out of my head
I asked the Hotties, can you tell me, is there one better than Tubs instead
They just grinned, shook their heads, and no was all they said
Take a load off Tubby
Take a load for free
Take a load of Tubby and...
Win the Iron Bowl for Hotties & Me
Cobra that is priceless!
Robbie Robertson & Storm Shadow would both be proud Commander.
Tuesday's schedule include lunch at Bryons or The BBQ House?
Verse 2:
I picked up my bags, and saw Franklin running to hide
He was in the corner with Borges & Finebaum by his side
I hollered out "Hey OCs, don't you need to coach the game"
They said, "It doesn't matter 'cause it's always the same"
Take a load off Tubby
Take a load for free
Take a load off Tubby and...
Win the Iron Bowl for Hotties & Me
Bwahahaha, love it Cobra. I thought that song might work.
Remember folks, keep a positive attitude. I don't think things are nearly as bad as some may think. This offense isn't bad, it is just misunderstood. It will get better.
Question for all, if Auburn were to completely clean house what does everyone think of Mike "I'm a man, I'm 40" Gundy?
Things are even worse than we think! Just ask Peter Frankenbummer! Tell 'em how bad it will be, Pete.
About the music...I agree that the original team video music was not that good at all.
But if you were fortunate enough to go the LSU game this year then you saw when they started the old video and had a screech..3...2...1... then played the old video from last year.
That was one of the most exciting pre-game atmospheres ever! If we couldn't win with that, then I doubt music or jerseys will make a difference.
Cobra! Such talent!
Nice work.
Last verse I promise...
Gonna need a cannonball now to beat that Crimson Tide
Tubs friend's a far and low and the buyout money's on the rise
Tubby says, "Gotta get back to winning games and it'll all be just fine
Or maybe I take BBQ boys and duck hunt for a year this time"
Take a load off Tubby
Take a load for free
Take a load off Tubby and...
Don't forget to call Jay G.
Mike Gundy we can't afford because T Boone just out another many millions in the OK State Athletic program.
Good work, Cobra Commander.
"This offense isn't bad, it is just misunderstood."
Speaking of "misunderstood", what does that mean? Who isn't undertanding it? The players? The fans?
It's pretty understood by the defenses we are playing against.
I like the idea of Gundy. I loved that video of him.
As for misunderstood, it is our coaches and players that appear to be having the difficulty. The opponents aren't seeing our offense. They are seeing the misunderstood offense.
Maybe there is a different way to put a positive spin on this. Just think of it as a kinder, more caring, non-violent offense.
I really like Gundy. He is young, he is energetic, he knows what it's like to recruit against a big school in state. Mr. S you think T Boone would prevent Auburn from even considering Gundy?
well maybe not considering but approaching him.
Gundy played at Oklahoma St. as well. Not saying it's impossible just another obstacle for anyone to get him out of Stillwater...as if T. Boone wasn't enough!
I thought about that too, DANG IT! I like Gundy.
This offense is actually part of a strategy by Tuberville to destroy Nick Saban. The real offense will be put in during halftime at the Iron Bowl, sending an undefeated Bama team reeling.
Just win, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Besides, he's worked hard to build that thing and I don't think he's about to leave it. SEC or not.
Cobra Commander, you got to record that.
Mr. S can we world debut Cobra's song on your radio show?
That's what I was afraid of Mr. S.
Here is another question for you. Do you really think Tuberville will be open to changes on his staff? Those guys have been with him for a long time and they are probably the only ones he trusts. Will he be able to do it and know he has no one in his corner?
If we hired Jim Bo Fischer he's 43 maybe he could give a speech like Gundy for everyone?
If he gets it produced and the quality is good, sure thing.
"Do you really think Tuberville will be open to changes on his staff?"
Honestly, no, not whole changes. I posted yesterday I see a couple of reassignments, maybe help one find a job at smaller school, but totally wipe the slate, I don't see him doing that. He was forced to do that to Malzonne and Lovett and I don't see him doing that again.
Doug thank you for asking THAT QUESTION! Would CTT make the changes in O if given the ultimatum.
That's funny. I'm not listening today and yet we are both answering the same question...
But will that be enough to turn things around? What OC will come to Auburn knowing what has happened with the other coordinators and some of those same people still on the staff?
Some up and comer is all I can think of at this point, Just Win.
LOL Mr. S - I was wondering if the lag on my internet version of Roundtable was THAT bad.
I think Scarbinsky made a great point. CTT shouldn't have to be given an ultimatum to make the changes that need to be made.
AND
If CTT says, "NO! You can't tell me I have to fire the O staff!" That is juvenile and speaks to his commitment to Auburn.
Does anyone know if the comment on Sportsline this morning about the private detective and the NCAA was true?
If they tell him he has no choice but to change the staff he can refuse, get fired and walk away with a ton of cash. I do not like that scenario at all!
Monica, I don't think anyone should tell Tuberville what changes he needs to make. He is the HC. It is up to him to know the changes he needs to make. He knows the situation better than anyone. If he can't identify the changes that need to occur, he doesn't need to be the head coach.
Steve - That's pretty much the point. Does he know. While I love CTT I don't think he's infallible. I don't think I'm being unfair when I say he may have blinders on when it comes to his friends/long time staff.
Amen Monica! I think Tubs has shown in the past he can be stubborn
Norm Chow. I don't think he wants to be a HC and we all know he has produced some great offenses. Forget about spending $6 million to get rid of Tuberville. Pay Norm Chow $1 Million a year and he will be here.
Infallible - I just had an image of CTT in a robe and miter(Pope's robe and formal headdress)
War Eagle Girl - I didn't hear the comment. What was it?
Monica, CTT has been able to consistently keep us winning with a regular turnover in coordinators. I think it is safe to say he knows how to select coaches. Some mistakes will be made, such as Franklin and Gibbs, but overall, he had done great.
A private detective that has done work for the NCAA says that he had been investigating for them before. He is compliling a report on 6 players that were recruited for a school and the NCAA will take it from there to publish it. That's all the info he would give. John and Barry just blew him off.
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